Requirement to do night dives

[Storker]

it is a fallacy

Let's agree on that

 

[boulderjohn]

You dont do dives that you are not trained or have experience in doing. An OW has neither administratively. you want references then look in a padi ow book it is there.

No, it isn't.

The PADI book cautions divers about how they should extend their training and experience. It suggests they get local guidance when diving in conditions that are new to them. That would cover the night dive as an example--doing your first night dive with someone who has done a night dive in that area before would fit perfectly within those guidelines.

Now tell me why an OW can, should what ever not do a cave dive. The same rules to both situations.

The rules there are totally different. In contrast to night diving, diving in overhead environments in general is mentioned specifically in the PADI OW course (and I imagine in every other agency's OW course) as something that should not be done without appropriate formal training. I cannot think of any other diving that is singled out that way.

That prohibition is quite severe, for it covers even the most basic overhead environments that any diver can easily navigate safely. For that reason, PADI did approve a course called Understanding Overhead Environments, a course that shows why it is OK to dive some overhead environments without formal training, not OK to dive some others without formal training, and absolutely and completely foolish to dive others (like caves) without that formal training.

There is no equivalent for night diving.

 

[DevonDiver]

Cave is singled out because qualifications need to be recognised by varied national cave agencies (which also invariably influences access to sites on public and private land).

There is no such regulation over wreck diving, because there are no governing bodies and access can't be controlled.

Hence, a complete disparity between two overhead environments of relatively equal risk.

 

[NAM001]

No, it isn't.

The PADI book cautions divers about how they should extend their training and experience. It suggests they get local guidance when diving in conditions that are new to them. That would cover the night dive as an example--doing your first night dive with someone who has done a night dive in that area before would fit perfectly within those guidelines.

The rules there are totally different. In contrast to night diving, diving in overhead environments in general is mentioned specifically in the PADI OW course (and I imagine in every other agency's OW course) as something that should not be done without appropriate formal training. I cannot think of any other diving that is singled out that way.

That prohibition is quite severe, for it covers even the most basic overhead environments that any diver can easily navigate safely. For that reason, PADI did approve a course called Understanding Overhead Environments, a course that shows why it is OK to dive some overhead environments without formal training, not OK to dive some others without formal training, and absolutely and completely foolish to dive others (like caves) without that formal training.

There is no equivalent for night diving.

You can make that arguement John but still it is the same thing there is no scuba police and there is no law that prohibits entering a cave with only OW training,,,, just like night nitros or any other diving.. My wife upon completion of her OW class had to sign docs stating her training received did not exceed 60' depth , visibility of 15" and greater , no over heads. no deco ect and finally she had to sign an agreement , on the same jacket, that she would not engage in dives that exceeded her training or experience. Once signed they handed her her card. No sign no card. These statements are not profesional standards for instructors while in training sessions, when it happens at the end of the course. It was signatures on a (I asume) PADI student training folder jacket to be done after final water and written tests. If an accident occurs this jacket can be retrieved to determine what her training exposure was and whether she exceeded her training abilities. In the AOW training it included the adventure/exposure dives conducted. Again meaningless untill things go south. It is so much cheaper to just take the AOW class and be documeted.

 

[NAM001]

Cave is singled out because qualifications need to be recognised by varied national cave agencies (which also invariably influences access to sites on public and private land).

There is no such regulation over wreck diving, because there are no governing bodies and access can't be controlled.

Hence, a complete disparity between two overhead environments of relatively equal risk.

but they are not enforcable any more than diving deep on solely a OW card. It is in the industry self regulation that enforcement comes from. Yes enforcement comes many times at the gat of the sive site. No card no entry. Thats not legal enforcement.

 

[DevonDiver]

Industry self-regulation is a myth.

 

[Centrals]

If you are oging to try to use a 20 year old course cert to justify a OW cert that is relative new then we are talking apples and oranges.

I was NOT talking apples and oranges, I was talking about PADI AOW.

 

[Centrals]

The issue is not with AOWS dong a night dive it is OWs doing them. Most AOWs i know did the night dive as part of their AOW as weol as a deep dive. The AOW card it self suggests that you probably , not necessarily, have the experience of a limited vision/night dive. Not so with a OW card.

Why PADI AOW without proper night dive training is fine to do night dive while OW is not. I had met a few OW divers who had done thousand of dives but never bother with any more training.

 

[CT-Rich]

You know what this discussion needs?

The SCUBA Nazis....

 

[CT-Rich]

You have good points about new divers and novice experience. I fully agree.

How do you feel this relates to only holding an OW cert? Which was the original topic before we went down various rat holes....

I have an basic NAUI Cert. Its from 1980. I'll be honest, I will probably take the AOW course with my daughter for fun. If you have been diving with experienced divers, in varied conditions you are getting experience. The way the certifications are set up, what I learned in the twelve week course in 1980 is now divided into a gabillion shorter courses. I am sure there are freshly minted AOW divers that are good to go night diving on a new spot. I would think there are more that are not ready. It also matters what the water conditions are, too. five foot visibility in a full 7mm wetsuit is very different from a dive skin in water with 100+ vis. The card just says you have the minimum experience to to a particular activity (at least theoretically). It means little else.
That is why god made checkout dives.
"He spoke unto Moses; Let him showeth that he doth not roto-till upon the floor of the sea. And doth let Captains of the Sea off the hook...." (JYC, 12:33)