single or doubles BPW?

[jeffmg]

I did my fundamentals in a dry suit and singles and really wish I had stuck to a wetsuit.

If you’re a beginning diver you’ll get a lot more value out of those 4 or 5 days if you have less to worry about than the air filling up your feet on ascent descent drills.

Also the difference in strength and finesse necessary to achieve a good back kick and helicopter turn is exponentially more in a set of doubles than singles.

You’re paying that instructor to show you how to achieve good trim and give you the mechanics for proper propulsion and safety protocols.

I’d be all in favor of making the course as comfortable as possible for yourself to start, the instructor will do plenty to take you out of your comfort zone, no need to introduce any other variables that will make life harder that week.

After the course is done, throw on a buddy’s set of doubles, head out and do some ascent/descents in a dry suit, practice your back kicks in a set of big a** water heaters on your back, but do that stuff at your own pace.

Jeff

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Oh, and depending on how far (deep) you want to go with your training, you may want to consider 130 doubles down the line, but as @KevinNM said, it might be a bit much at first. Liz Tribe up in Vancouver BC dives with those. The HP119's are no longer available new. I still might get a second pair of doubles with 130's (as I have HP100's), as I've just started down the tec path, getting AN/DP certifications last year. I'm still hoping to do trimix with @decompression.

About GUE. It is a good organization for training. Go there for the skills. If the philosophy works for you, go with it (I don't care what path people take, as long as they keep diving, its all good with me). There are benefits to doing down that path with DIR agencies, even if you have not gone down the tech path (as ISE, GUE, UTD all have recreational skills paths). With the standardization that they all do, you can dive with anyone with just knowing their certification level, and it just works. As far as I've experienced, you don't get that outside of those organizations (though I'm sure someone will say otherwise). One of my AOW students who is going down the GUE path. He's adopted the GUE system, won't go beyond 100 feet without trimix. And that's fine. He has a DUI dry suit (not Santi). His BP/W isn't Halcyon. There isn't an issue. When it comes to replacing it, there may be some social pressure to get Halcyon/Santi gear. Or not. But I don't think he'll become persona non grata if he sticks to his same line. I find the GUE community in Seattle to be fairly reasonable. In my experience, everyone has been more concerned about function as opposed to what brand.

I went through Fundies a year ago. I hope to go through T1 with Guy Shockey. In my DUI drysuit. With my Xdeep BP/W. He's a great guy, committed to quality training. I can't imagine him having issue with my gear as long as it meets the technical requirements.

Again, good luck!

 

[HantsDiver]

If you’re a beginning diver you’ll get a lot more value out of those 4 or 5 days if you have less to worry about than the air filling up your feet on ascent descent drills.

Without wanting to be funny. Surely the whole point is you should be learning over the 4/5 days how to do things in the gear you will be using? If you are taking the 'easy' option you are not going to get the most out of it. And any reasonably decent instructor will sort out a drysuit quickly.

Also the difference in strength and finesse necessary to achieve a good back kick and helicopter turn is exponentially more in a set of doubles than singles.

I don't agree with this. As i don't find it any harder to backfin or turn in a twinset. But again - if he's going to dive with that configuration surely he is better to learn from the person he is paying how to do them with the equipment he will dive with.

You’re paying that instructor to show you how to achieve good trim and give you the mechanics for proper propulsion and safety protocols.

And if you are paying them then surely you want them to show you how to do it with the stuff you will actually use.

I’d be all in favor of making the course as comfortable as possible for yourself to start, the instructor will do plenty to take you out of your comfort zone, no need to introduce any other variables that will make life harder that week.

I'm not sure the instructor is going to do all that much to take someone outside their comfort zone on fundamentals. It's as the name suggests about fundamental skills. They will not be trying to make life harder for you here. It's about bringing the basics together.

 

[KevinNM]

Fundies is all about pushing you out of your comfort zone, and expanding where the edges are. How controlled you are, how many things you can do while maintaining that control. As one instructor said, i’t doesn’t matter if you are a new diver with 20 dives or an experienced tech diver, you’ll get your money’s worth.’ But hopefully not both in the same class, that would be hard.

 

[KentB]

I did my fundamentals in a dry suit and singles and really wish I had stuck to a wetsuit.

If you’re a beginning diver you’ll get a lot more value out of those 4 or 5 days if you have less to worry about than the air filling up your feet on ascent descent drills.

Also the difference in strength and finesse necessary to achieve a good back kick and helicopter turn is exponentially more in a set of doubles than singles.

You’re paying that instructor to show you how to achieve good trim and give you the mechanics for proper propulsion and safety protocols.

I’d be all in favor of making the course as comfortable as possible for yourself to start, the instructor will do plenty to take you out of your comfort zone, no need to introduce any other variables that will make life harder that week.

After the course is done, throw on a buddy’s set of doubles, head out and do some ascent/descents in a dry suit, practice your back kicks in a set of big a** water heaters on your back, but do that stuff at your own pace.

Jeff

water is 45* here give or take a degree or 2 either way.
how cold was the water and how much experience in a drysuit did you have?
all my dives apart from 2 in mexico have been in a drysuit, I cant imagine Id have an easier time renting a 7 mm suit with zero experience in it. Id prefer to take the class in the configuration Im going to dive, If that means a fail, or partial pass and needs to retake it a 2nd time Im ok with that. I will be there to learn and become a better diver. taking it in a thick ass wetsuit locally or flying to the tropics to take it in an "easier configuration" I don't dive regularly and then trying to apply it to "more difficult cold water drysuit diving" sounds like a waste of time, money and not really worth it compared to actually taking it in your most common dive configuration.

 

[guruboy]

Im thinking of the fundamentals in the 2018 fall/winter

that's a not for a while. try to find local GUE folks to dive with in the meantime. where I am, the GUE community will basically mentor you on all the skills you learn in Fundies.

i could do the fundies rec pass in a single tank and when I get doubles do the upgrade to the fundies tech pass for no extra charge from her.

depending on whether or not you can get mentoring locally, consider doing Fundies in a single tank then. A rec pass is a rec pass and you can take her up on the free tech pass checkout later on. A provisional has a limited window for you to go back for a rec/tech pass and probably additional costs.

 

[KevinNM]

To get a pass in doubles you need to do a valve drill successfully and correctly. Not fast - right. Practice makes permanent, practicing it wrong makes it very hard to fix. Don't try to learn this on your own, there is a very specific way GUE wants it done, it's different than, for example, how the PADI tech curriculum wants it done.. Have an instructor or a well established GUE tech/cave diver show it to you.

The doubles course was good value for my money, even though I failed it. I couldn't reach a valve due to range of motion issue I had.

If you have dove all the time in a drysuit than yes, take it in that.

 

[Dave Bevan]

A lot depends on where you dive.

Absolutely best thing to do is talk to the instructor you are planning to do fundies with. He can help you out with gear and equipment choices. Even better why not rent some gear for your course before you lay down the cash.

Whilst Halcyon is popular in the GUE for obviously reasons I know plenty that use DIRzone, X Deep etc.

I would go with what is readily available in your local area that what you have support for your LDS.

Last thing why not take the doubles course. It's two days and a lot cheaper than fundies. Then you will have had the proper training before you start on double and won't pick up so many and habits. I did the doubles course and then went into fundies on Twinset wetsuit.

 

[Compressor]

I recently did a buoyancy trim and propulsion workshop with a GUE instructor and while I don't agree with ALL of GUE thoughts and practices I still want to take the Fundamentals course and want to do tech diving in the future. Im thinking of the fundamentals in the 2018 fall/winter

I currently use a tusa X wing back inflate BCD i have 2 tanks (1-120 1-149)
my dilema is Im still learning to dive and wondering if I should get more experience under my belt before I jump to doubles? Since Doubles will be in my future hopefully sooner than later why prolong a single tank?
Im thinking of twin 120s or 130s

any advice on BPW?
I dive dry and will have steel tank(s) im thinking a SS backplate. Id guess Id need about 40lbs lift?
any brands to reccomend or stay away from? Almost everyone around here that Ive got close enough to see dives Halcyon stuff.............

thanks!!

I would be more concerned about passing the course. Many do not pass on 1st attempt; research this before taking the course as its a a very demanding course to say the least.

 

[_Ralph]

Sounds like you are chatting with Liz. Keep the conversation flowing, follow her advice (she won't steer you wrong).

At this very moment, I'd suggest doing Fundies in a single (with a CORDED primary light), and later doing the Doubles Primer. Nearly everything in Fundies in a single tank will translate to doubles (except for valve drills .... there's more valves on doubles) and to whichever kind of diving you eventually get into (GUE or not).

If you end up going down the GUE route, it's one more dive to get to T1/C1 ('tech pass upgrade'), else you will be very squared away with any other organization.

Also remember, there are many 'recreational' level certifications (that do include Helium/light deco) with GUE.

As for tanks, X7-100 and X8-130 are the going tanks for doubles (if you can find them used, the Faber varieties work as well).... You'll get 2 solid dives out of the 130's and a long dive out of the 100's (for Tech diving in the T1 range .... ) down the road (or 3+ solid recreational dives with the 130's, 2 solid recreational dives with the 100's)

I use 100's for 30m dives, 130's for anything deeper, or really looooooong 30m dives.


_R