SM with warm water / travel reg vs. APEKS XTX50

[decompression]

Interesting. I also love my Mikron regs. Great flow, amazingly light, fits my face well. I seldom open the venti by more than 50%; fully open they push air into the mouth ;-)

Do you dive them on double SM? Were you able to get a solo 1st stage or did you get them as a set and sold of the remaining octopus?

I use them both for single and double tank, depends on the dive, the dive op etc. it's tough to find a solo first but not impossible, I have a few complete sets.

 

[Remy B.]

I don't have issues with my hose routing, they stay tight to my body, I have APEKS DS4 1st stage with DIN, so I can position better my regulator, if you have the inferior "Yoke" type connection then it can be a problem.

Same go for my Aqua-Lung 1st stage I had installed the DIN connector and I don't have issues, but because I use them on my Deco bottle and my 3rd bottle now they just have the gauge hose and the 2nd stage regulator hose, so I Don't have issues it all with hoses.

 

[Remy B.]

DanSEA

I don't know if you have the crappy Yoke connector or DIN, if you have the Yoke and you install DIN you save a lot of weight

 

[uncfnp]

DanSEA

I don't know if you have the crappy Yoke connector or DIN, if you have the Yoke and you install DIN you save a lot of weight

Remy B i admit to some confusion from your posts. I like
Din better then yoke myself but switching on the Mikron would only save him a whopping 5 oz.

And really don't understand the recommendation to switch over to cold water regs for warm water diving. Will not effect WOB and its a diaphragm reg so already affers some degree of environmental protection and obviously no worries with freezing causing a freeflow.

 

[DanSEA]

DanSEA

I don't know if you have the crappy Yoke connector or DIN, if you have the Yoke and you install DIN you save a lot of weight

Initially crappy Yoke but switching to DIN now (not for weight reasons but safety concerns), being the kick-off for this threat. Either now getting 2x Mikron als DIN (so far I love the Mikron), or if there are any major concerns for having the Mikron in SM (e.g. hose routing as Andy stated), getting the XTX50 (although they are certainly heavier / bulkier).

Remy B i admit to some confusion from your posts. I like
Din better then yoke myself but switching on the Mikron would only save him a whopping 5 oz.

And really don't understand the recommendation to switch over to cold water regs for warm water diving. Will not effect WOB and its a diaphragm reg so already affers some degree of environmental protection and obviously no worries with freezing causing a freeflow.

From my experience with the AL Mikron,
- Free-flow hasn't never been an issue yet;
- 2nd stage is over-balanced (at least to my understanding). Opening the Venti by 40% results into a constant flow into the lungs.

I have to admit that I never tried the XTX50 under water and those cannot compare both 'over balanced' scenarios

 

[DanSEA]

It's one heck of a big difference, as good hose routing is quite critical to getting the best out of a sidemount rig.

Many... most... sidemount use an LPI horizontally routed across the chest. A clean configuration is achieved by using a regulator 1st stage with a 5th (end) port. This routes the low pressure hose directly in-line to meet the LPI.

The Mikron doesn't have a 5th port. It'll be messy for hose routing.

Not questioning your expert opinion, but put into consideration that:

• You dive in extreme conditions (referring to extremely tight wreck penetrations not missing any part of a wreck), while my limits are recreational diving with some mild wreck penetration in the future;
• Many other SM divers don't have the 5th port (APEKS DS-4, APEKS DST 5th port option only since recently, Users of SK25, etc.), does that imply they all suffer from screwed LPI hose routing?

While I can totally see that horizontal routing makes sense, I am also keen to understand whether the 5th port is a nice to have (for recreational SM) or rather an essential that I cannot miss under any circumstances.

Besides routing, any other major difference that you would suggest not to take the Mikron in SM? I am generally very happy with my Mikron in BM conditions, however, if there is a good justification (extreme convenience gain, safety considerations), it is a very different story. That was initially the reason to open this threat.

Pick the right sidemount, and you'll save enough weight over your BP&W to keep things about equal. I travel and dive around SE Asia... abd my sidemount kit packs into hand luggage.

I know, Andy. You briefly introduced your DIY BC with the trim pillow only a few weeks back in Subic when diving with Johanns. I never saw anything similar and was utter curious (as being a fan of lean setups). Since then, I spend hours browsing both your website and SM section at ScubaBoard.

Nonetheless, although my SM setup using a Decodive bladder is considerably lean, it is still 1kg (and those only 500g lighter than my current Oxycheq 18 BM setup). So total weight concerns for dive equipment remains ;-)

Dropping the Jet Fins would be a smart move also... very heavy and they don't trim so well with SM, as they do with backmount. See: Top 5 Warm-Water Sidemount Fins

Yes, fully agree and already checked exactly this link a week back. Force Fins Pro are my favorite, however, considering the FF SD1 discussion in this forum, I am not fully convinced that they will support me equally in a strong currents as Jetties do. Besides, the FF Pro is an amazingly lean fin and I cannot wait to give it a try.

 

[DevonDiver]

You dive in extreme conditions (referring to extremely tight wreck penetrations not missing any part of a wreck), while my limits are recreational diving with some mild wreck penetration in the future... While I can totally see that horizontal routing makes sense, I am also keen to understand whether the 5th port is a nice to have (for recreational SM) or rather an essential that I cannot miss under any circumstances.

I guess it depends on what you want from your sidemount experience. I dived a very clean backmount/long-hose for years and didn't switch to sidemount do as to suffer a muddle of hoses.

I'm at a stage where I really feel frustrated when a rig isn't finely tuned and dialled down. It ruins the sublime experience of sidemount.

Essential? No.. and budget is certainly a factor.

Unsafe? No.... but.... convoluted rigs add a lot of stress and confusion. In a worst case scenario it could be a tipping point to diver failure. That's vitally important on consequence-laden dives.... but for a less experienced diver, even on a benign dive, it can overload minimal rig familiarity. Keeping a rig clean and tidy makes incidents so much easier to manage. I see this with students at all levels, rec and tech.

Besides routing, any other major difference that you would suggest not to take the Mikron in SM?

None, really - providing performance is equal to the task on the dives you complete.

... my SM setup using a Decodive bladder is considerably lean, it is still 1kg (and those only 500g lighter than my current Oxycheq 18 BM setup). So total weight concerns for dive equipment remains

To get it lower, you have to change the little things. Replace big D-rings with low profile ones. Replace standard waist buckle with a slim 'rolling-pin' type. If you've got the money, order some titanium parts from Russia (HE2).

Force Fins Pro are my favorite, however, considering the FF SD1 discussion in this forum, I am not fully convinced that they will support me equally in a strong currents as Jetties do.

The main issue with FF is that they require some changes to technique. Some divers try them.... a few dives... not enough to understand the refinement needed... and judge them badly.

The same is true when people disparage FF for weak frog, back kick and helicopter turns etc...

Of course, they don't have the brute power of Jets. But there's few divers who have the cardio and muscle strength to effectively harness that power. FF give accessible power that won't blow the hamstrings and calves quickly.

IMHO, anyone who goes on about the power of Jets....but doesnt themselves do serious gym and pool work...is just a dreamer.

Force Fins give efficient power delivery. They won't melt your leg muscles when you need to max them out.

If FF couldn't deal with a current, then your legs probably wouldn't either... and who ever dives currents like that anyway? It'd be time for DPV, a drift dive or a reef hook. The issue would be CO2 management anyway....

 

[DanSEA]

Thanks for the detailed explaination. Filly agree that a cleaner, tidier setup is, the easier potential problem solving is.

Also thanks for the detailed FF explaination. I ll give them a shot put under consideration it takes some training to adjust to them.

 

[Remy B.]

DanSEA, I just checked the AL parts catalog and I was mistaken, the Mikron actually doesn't have the Cold Water kit, both Titan and Mikron 1st stage look similar on the outside but they are actually not the same, sorry about that.

What you can do is buy a 1st stage Titan LX, for cold water and with DIN, or a APEKS DS4 they are cheap, the APEKS comes normally with DIN, it will be actually more expensive if you find them in Yoke, so don't let the dive shops trick you telling you that because you wan't then in DIN they are more expensive.

 

[Remy B.]

Remember as well you need some good Bungee straps to tow in your hose, that save you from entanglement in high risk areas, if you see my profile picture, that is what it looks like when you can't strap your hoses in and I have two long hoses, that make it look even worse.

Try to find a good travel band strap with big clips