What do you think about Advanced Open Water Diver Certification?

[ajduplessis]

DAN in South Africa and I assume in Europe have 2 non-commercial options. Standard = max depth 40m & Master = Max 100m

All dives below 100m must be communicated beforehand with actual and backup plans (all aspects) before commencing.

 

[spectrum]

Thats it, no shore dives were advanced, although one specialty for most the organizations is Shore Diving?[/QUOTE]

To my knowledge shore diving is not offered as a mainstream course. Topics such as rough water entry were offered in courses of yesteryear. Today exposure to stuff like that is pretty random. If your class goes on a rough day you may get some pointers or rolled in the surf. Many get certified 100% from boats and would benefit from some guidance on their first trip to the beach.

If a shore dive is on a deep site then it becomes advanced by that definition. The same may be said for a dive with a significant salvage or navigation challenge.

Pete

 

[west0ne]

As an OW diver I have been reading this thread with interest. I have so far avoided doing my AOW course, partly due to lack of funding but also partly because I am unsure what I will learn. Looking at the manual and having talked to other AOW divers it always seems like less of a training course and more of an expensive way of doing 5 more dives (that could be just poor training or poor trainee I suppose).

On holiday I have never had a problem not being AOW but that's because I have only done simple dives. Locally I do exceed the training but only in relation to depth, usually in the 20-25m range but no overhead or the like.

Based on the comments in this thread I am still unsure about the PADI AOW and am now thinking that the BSAC sports diver may be a better route as it does appear to require some theory alongside the practical. Does anyone have experience of advanced training that does pick up more than just the extra dives? If I'm going to spend money I want the most out of it. I am UK based which may limit the agencies available to me.

 

[CamG]

To the OP "JUST DO AND GET IT OVER WITH!"
We live in a legal world that law suits have shaped everything we can or can't do. THAT IS IT!
A certified dive professional, dive op, boat owner can not take the chance on anyone.
It is a sad state of affairs and I to am sorry you were offended.

I have been on both sides of this argument, literally as a new diver and a experienced diver explaining to a new diver.
I always encouraged new divers to take AOW fairly soon after OW "whatever agency" for the simple fact the AOW coarse is intended to broaden their experience and knowledge.

D.A.N. insurance is a MUST!
It is never a waist of money the two times I needed DAN they were right there to offer assistance.

AOW is a intro into different aspects of diving and should be treated as such!
Training under supervision with skill assessment and evaluation this rarely happens on your own unless you are diving with me.
I require a little more from dive buddy and demand you give me the same scrutiny.
This is a fun activity but make no mistake serious fun it is and dangerous it can be!
Diving outside ones limits, Trust me dives, lack of conservatism, dangerous conditions, etc can all begin a path to a fatality.
Will a card save your rear end? I think not!
Training with experience will give you your best shot at survival.
An instructor might be able to keep you alive but that is a tall order if you are in way over your head training wise.

I am going to tell you what I was told...."SLOW DOWN OVERACHIEVER AND TAKE YOUR TIME TO TRAIN AND GAIN EXPERIENCE!"
A card or a log book never saved anyone skill mastery and experience with a conservative approach is a good start.
You will get there but be careful along the way there is always a temptation of short cuts........DONT DO IT!

HIJACK........Could the average OW certified diver even pass the OLD YMCA Scuba Diver Coarse?
I would love to look at the material covered in the old coarse to determine for myself the equivalent of current training standards.
Sorry this theme always makes me ponder a conversation I had with a older diving friend I have.

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The smorgasboard approach with little real new skill development is the reason that I don't offer it. AOW course dives are set and designed to impart new skills while using the skills from the previous dive as a base to build on as Andy said. I don't have lots of options for dives. That was intentional. If someone wants photo or reef ecology they need to go somewhere else. Spent a lot of time considering what to offer in addition to the ones required by the agency - Deep, UW Nav, and Night/low Vis- and decided to make it 6 dives with two ones I wrote myself. With skill requirements I came up with based on local conditions, most often needed skills, insterests of my primary student base, and creating safe divers. Then they have one optional dive they can choose from either Search and Recovery or Wreck, or one more of the core course dives. That however may require another day or weekend depending on schedules. But if someone wants to do two Nav dives fine. I just up the challenge and performance requirements for the second one.

And just in case I get a student that has not done rescue yet or not had rescue skills in the OW class, the final dive of the course is all rescue skills. I'm not going to give an AOW card to someone that cannot bring an unconscious diver to the surface, help a panicked diver at the surface, support a diver at the surface and help them ditch their weights, guide a diver whose mask has been kicked off to the surface, or do an air share ascent.

 

[Bob DBF]

HIJACK........Could the average OW certified diver even pass the OLD YMCA Scuba Diver Coarse?
I would love to look at the material covered in the old coarse to determine for myself the equivalent of current training standards.
Sorry this theme always makes me ponder a conversation I had with a older diving friend I have.

I believe the average diver might, there would be a lot more quitting than you see now.

The difference you would see is not so much the written portion of the class, but in the amount of time in understanding the written, practical exercises, and pure repitition. It is one thing to remove and replace your gear underwarer once, and another to do it so many times it's just as easy to swim with it like luggage (may be where sidemount came from) as wear it properly.

When I finally got card-certified, the NAUI / PADI class was over a month with 3-4 hours on thursday evening, 4 hours in the pool on saturdays and all day at the beach on sundays. There is no way to cover the as much material and exercises in the time allotted for OW now. It may not have been this way at other locations in 1980, but the instructor was training students to dive the NorCal coast all year, which I do to this day.

The challanging parts of AOW were goals I set for myself, not the bar that was set for the class, I could have skated through, but chose not to and learned a lot more than others in the class. If divers want better training they can better instructors or set ther own goals and can reach them regardless of quality of the class, it's just more difficult.



Bob
----------------------------------------------------
I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[Searcaigh]

To be honest the current PADI AOW should be just called OW2

Exploration, Excitement, Experiences. They’re what the PADI Advanced Open Water Diver course is all about. And no, you don’t have to be “advanced” to take it – it’s designed so you can go straight into it after the PADI Open Water Diver course.

They do mention that you don't have to be "Advanced" but after a minimum of 9 dives you are?

I am a firm believer that the "advanced" course should start with Peak Performance Buoyancy, and unless you manage that and satisfy the instructor you should not be allowed to carry on with the rest of the course until you can pass that first part, irrespective of how many dives you have done previously. Additionally as Jim mentions above, some serious Rescue skills should be mandatory, and would be a good intro to the Rescue course.

I know it is difficult to measure experience, 25 dives in the Red Sea does not equal 25 dives off the coast of the UK or NW of the US continent, but I would expect some specific number of dives to be set as a minimum before being allowed to do an AOW and not just immediately after passing OW.

 

[Blackwood]

To be honest the current PADI AOW should be just called OW2
.

Like the myriad of complaints about "DIR", I think people assign too much value to what dive classes or philosophies are called.

 

[spectrum]

HIJACK........Could the average OW certified diver even pass the OLD YMCA Scuba Diver Coarse?
I would love to look at the material covered in the old coarse to determine for myself the equivalent of current training standards.
Sorry this theme always makes me ponder a conversation I had with a older diving friend I have.

Good question CamG,

I don't think many would put up with the training, let alone pass evaluations. If that was still the staus quo I seriously doubt that I'd be involved. As it is I waited about 30 years until the bar was lowered enough for this totally non athletic type to give it a try at 48 years of age in 2005.

Becoming a better swimmer is still on the to do list but the rest of the old program would be fun to experieince with the dives I now have under my belt. A buddy has inflicted some harrasement training in a pool and it was a rush.

The old program was more intense but also much longer. That may have done a lot to ease the burden of what was involved.

Pete

 

[AfterDark]

One of the requirments was to thread water for 5 mins without using your hands and of course no fins. Try that sometime. It was a breeze for me at age 16 a strong swimmer and a avid snorkeler at the time, today I don't think so.