What's wrong with Split Fins??
- Thread starter YellowfinKunkfish
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Yes it is.howarde:
I skimmed through a few of his other pages ... and noticed his claim to have achieved a swimming speed of 2.3 mph in Apollo Biofins ... on a back kick. Claims to have swam the length of the pool backwards two or three times.
Color me skeptical ... I'd have to see it before I'd find that claim credible ... unless he was not wearing any scuba gear, perhaps ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
sambolino44
Contributor
Firstly, I have to say that I'm shocked - SHOCKED! I tell you! - that in an emotional contentious thread like this one, nobody took the bait I dangled earlier when I mentioned my Force Fins. FORCE FINS! FORCE FINS! FORCE FINS! What do you think about that!?! Bleahhhh!!
Secondly, I think it's great that the OP is going to try several types for herself in a pool. Open water would be better, and in a current would be better still, but she's still getting certified, so pool it is.
Thirdly, there are several things brought up in this thread that don't make sense to me. I hope maybe somebody can shed some light on these questions.
One: Current. Logically, it shouldn't make any difference. See Larry's essay about relative motion. However, my own experience in a current at Keystone with my Force Fins says otherwise. I still have not made a proper A-B comparison with my old paddle fins, so it's hard to tell. But whereas I was learning how to kick differently and go what seemed like faster with them, in the current it seemed like I was working hard and getting nowhere.
Two: Slipstream. I've read that keeping your kick stroke short so that your fins stay within your slipstream reduces drag. But if the fins are what are moving you forward, logic would say get them out in the still water where they can get some "traction". Once again, experience trumps logic.
Three: Overdrive vs. Granny Gear. I consider my Force Fins somewhat like split fins in that you make more kick strokes per unit of length traveled. To me, that says low gear. A stiff fin, which is hard to push and gives you cramps says high gear. But that's the opposite of what several others have said. This is one where my experience agrees with my logic.
One final note: I firmly believe that if I was in better physical condition, and had better finning technique, and more experience diving, and better buoyancy control and trim, all that would make way more of a difference than what type of fin I used.
Secondly, I think it's great that the OP is going to try several types for herself in a pool. Open water would be better, and in a current would be better still, but she's still getting certified, so pool it is.
Thirdly, there are several things brought up in this thread that don't make sense to me. I hope maybe somebody can shed some light on these questions.
One: Current. Logically, it shouldn't make any difference. See Larry's essay about relative motion. However, my own experience in a current at Keystone with my Force Fins says otherwise. I still have not made a proper A-B comparison with my old paddle fins, so it's hard to tell. But whereas I was learning how to kick differently and go what seemed like faster with them, in the current it seemed like I was working hard and getting nowhere.
Two: Slipstream. I've read that keeping your kick stroke short so that your fins stay within your slipstream reduces drag. But if the fins are what are moving you forward, logic would say get them out in the still water where they can get some "traction". Once again, experience trumps logic.
Three: Overdrive vs. Granny Gear. I consider my Force Fins somewhat like split fins in that you make more kick strokes per unit of length traveled. To me, that says low gear. A stiff fin, which is hard to push and gives you cramps says high gear. But that's the opposite of what several others have said. This is one where my experience agrees with my logic.
One final note: I firmly believe that if I was in better physical condition, and had better finning technique, and more experience diving, and better buoyancy control and trim, all that would make way more of a difference than what type of fin I used.
SkullDeformity
Contributor
Does anyone know what the efficiency of fish tails is? How does it relate to efficiency of man-made fins?
Mauifish
Contributor
So many differences of opinion on fins in here, I think fins are like someone posted previously, TOOLS. So many different types of splits with different shapes and ridgedness. Ever since I got my black twin jet stiffies with spring straps I have been more popular with the ladies and many of the guys feel threatened by me as I gracefully glide past them effortlessly on a dive. Don't hate me because I have better fins!!
howarde:
I've seen those articles before and I just read them again. I didn't see much in the way of science. The guy admits that he is just learning to do a reverse kick and then rates the ability of a split fin to do it...too funny. He is affiliated with Sd magazine...adds to the laugh.
I have used splits. When they first came out I baught a pair and used them for a whole summer before going back to paddle fins. Later I owned a dive shop and had the oportunity to use several different brands and models. When I noticed how much trouble students had learning various kicks while using them I invested a LOT of time into trying to make them work acceptably for those kicks. I wasn't trying to fail the fins. On the contrary, I WANTED to be able to claim some advantage to a fin that I could sell for $180. In the end, I had to refuse to allow students to use them in certain classes because they needed to be able to do the finning techniques that I was teaching. The splits were a no-go for that and I doubt any RD staff could make it through one of those classes in a pair either. I even gave some away to a diver who did his own tests with them and posted the results on this site.
It's really pretty simple. Several finning techniques actually use the fin, literally, as a paddle. A paddle works better if it isn't split. PADDLE fins work really well as paddles for these kicks but fins that are split don't. Note, that there aren't any boat paddles that are made with a split up the middle....well maybe there is one someplace but I haven't see it. We usually replace them when they break. LOL
They might work well for some divers under certain conditions but if the diver ever gets serious about learning to use their fins to precisely control their movement and orientation in the water with a minimal amount of movement, they'll probably have to buy a different set of fins. Unfortunately this escapes many divers and I'm thinking it's because they never learned to do it in the first place. They couldn't do it with any fin and are certainly in no position to report on a fins suitability in those applications...like the scuba lab guy. LOL
YellowfinKunkfish:
You may want to try both in the pool with just snorkel gear and then again pushing something along to create allot of drag. Personally, I made my decision when dragging in another diver (simulated rescue) while wearing my buddy's splits.
Good luck. May the fin best for you win.
DISCLAIMER: The following comes from a brand new diver with no experience or expertise.
It occurs to me that most, if not all finning technique were developed with the use of paddle type fins for use with paddle type fins. It would make sence that paddle fins would be the right impliment for those techniques. However, since the advent of the split fin, I would hope that new techniques have been developed to make use of the new technology. Testing a "paddle manuver" with a split fin would be an unfair test. Now, with all that said, ARE there specialized techniques associated with the split fins?
It occurs to me that most, if not all finning technique were developed with the use of paddle type fins for use with paddle type fins. It would make sence that paddle fins would be the right impliment for those techniques. However, since the advent of the split fin, I would hope that new techniques have been developed to make use of the new technology. Testing a "paddle manuver" with a split fin would be an unfair test. Now, with all that said, ARE there specialized techniques associated with the split fins?
RonFrank
Contributor
Background: After reading, and contributing to this thread (and many others) I am a world renown Split fin vs. Paddle fin expert!
Theory: Split fins RULE.
Analysis: I read a LOT online! I dive sometimes as well
Conclusion: ALL the experts on the subject have come to the same conclusion that NO ONE seems to know which fin works better! Any expert is generally ruled as someone with less than third grad intelligence by OTHER experts! All that aside, ScubaDiving Magazine says Apollo Biofins are the BEST fins in the world, so it must be true.
More Proof: I dive Apollo BioFins.
Even more proof: I've never seen a Dolphin wearing Jet fins, but I did see a Dolphin with an Apollo Biofin in it's mouth. Obviously he/she was stealing this fin to enhance finning ability!
So there you have it, and with luck this will close this and ALL future threads on the subject! :mooner:
Theory: Split fins RULE.
Analysis: I read a LOT online! I dive sometimes as well
Conclusion: ALL the experts on the subject have come to the same conclusion that NO ONE seems to know which fin works better! Any expert is generally ruled as someone with less than third grad intelligence by OTHER experts! All that aside, ScubaDiving Magazine says Apollo Biofins are the BEST fins in the world, so it must be true.
More Proof: I dive Apollo BioFins.
Even more proof: I've never seen a Dolphin wearing Jet fins, but I did see a Dolphin with an Apollo Biofin in it's mouth. Obviously he/she was stealing this fin to enhance finning ability!
So there you have it, and with luck this will close this and ALL future threads on the subject! :mooner:
RonFrank
Contributor
robertarak:
Yes, but they involve whip cream, an electric toothbrush, strawberries, and a shovel. I would elaborate, but this is a G rated website! :mooner:
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