Why do I need a Nitrox certification?

[Thalassamania]

That's a BIG ripoff. The PADI course I took costs $130.00. The books and tables costs 41.95 from leisure pro the same ones I have. I was informed probably no dives. So I figure $60.00 MAX. LP is selling the books and tables at a profit for $42.00 which means they got them for less. So what are they worth direct from PADI, $20.00 maybe? Another $30.00-$40.00 per for c-card processing, web site costs,etc. I'd say that's fair. Do they wear masks when they charge $205?

Flying and NItrox are like heart surgery and splinter removal no comparision. A 100+ dollar Nitrox course is a rip off pure and simple.

I'd say that 41.95 for nitrox info is a rip, you can damn near buy a NOAA manual for that and get all you need to know about nitrox and everything else there is to know about diving in one cover.

$100 dollars seems like a small price to pay to learn how to handle a gas that could kill you if misused. Just my opinion.

Nitrox-21 can kill you just like Nitrox-32, just the same way(s), just a little deeper.

AD wrote

That is such B.S. I bet you also walked to school in three feet of snow uphill both ways!

People are taught how to dive today also AND people are taught about diving. I know I wasn't taught anything about BCDs, about Nitrox, about Octos or bungied backups, non-silting kicks or any number of things your basic O.W. student is taught today.

In '68? We were using horsecollar BCs, no nitrox, but pure O2 was in use, no Octo, using SPGs, yes to non-silting kicks. This meant that the physical skills were a bit harder to master and the syllabus was a bit thicker.

FWIW in 1968 $125, in 2012 that equals $832.12

People forget that, especially the difference between every-day expenses and diving gear. I wrote in a story a few years back:

"I noticed that my hands were really cold. Lloyd and Ken told me that what I needed to do now was get rid of those effete five finger ScubaPro dress gloves and get a pair of truly manly three finger mitts. We drove into town to fill our tanks at the Aquarius Dive Shop and I sacrificed next week's food money to buy a pair."

The mitts were $30.00 back then, that's almost $200 today!

 

[Teller]

Nitrox-21 can kill you just like Nitrox-32, just the same way(s), just a little deeper.

I was assuming that this thread was referring to recreational depth limits. If you are diving beyond those limits then I would think you have been trained and are fully aware of how that gas is effecting your body. Obviously a diver can die misusing any gas mix. PPO2 on 21% at 130' is 1.03. We can round that up to 1.1 and according to the CNS% chart that gives us 240 minutes on a single dive. PPO2 on 32% at 130' is 1.57. Round that to 1.6 and we only get 45 minutes. Thats a huge difference and its within rec limits. If we went "just a little deeper" it only get worse. I don't see many instructors teaching this in depth during an OW course. Hence the reason you take a nitrox course. I understand that many things can be self taught however there would be nothing to regulate who is trained and who is not trained to use those mixes. I have heard many new divers over the years say, "I want to get nitrox certified so I can dive deeper." Although we all know that by increasing the O2 of a mix the MOD will actually be shallower. What if we just let these divers get nitrox fills without any formal training? We take courses to make what is a potentially dangerous sport as safe as possible.

 

[AfterDark]

FWIW in 1968 $125, in 2012 that equals $832.12

From post 148: There is no way the to go back the way things are these structured these days. Most people couldn't afford what a course like we had would cost today. Most people today wouldn't put the time into it anyway.........

 

[endurodog]

From post 148: There is no way the to go back the way things are these structured these days. Most people couldn't afford what a course like we had would cost today. Most people today wouldn't put the time into it anyway.........

I hear ya, mine was a college course in 1983 and when I tell people some of the things the instructor did they look at me in disbelief, not that he was dangerous or bad but the training was pretty intense. He really made us work problems.

 

[scubamask]

Flamers need not reply. Where I live the LDS's do not question anyone for c cards or Nitrox fills ever. I have a dive computer and use it. I have been using Nitrox for a couple years now and am just wondering why one would want/ need to get certified for reasons other than getting fills why on vacation and what not. Anything I am missing on this? Why is the certification a supposed requirment. In my experience I have only been asked for Nitrox cert proof when in very touristy areas.
I understand it's cheap to get the cert and all, but what valuable knowledge will a avid OW diver that never plans to do any type of technical diving gain from it?
Thanks in advance.

There are a variety of things a good instructor should be covering during a nitrox course. In particular, you should be comfortable with what to do in case things don't go exactly as you had planned. You can choose to dive in whatever manner you want - I just would choose not to buddy with you on dives and hope no one ever has to place themselves at risk to rescue you.

If you have to think for more than a few seconds about each of these brief senarios below, you probably should take a course ...

1. You go to pick up your nitrox tank at the dive shop and it is labeled 35.2% O2. You should plan to dive with this nitrox mixture to a maximum depth of:
a. 99 feet
b. 95 feet
c. 90 feet
d. I don't know the answer

2. You are diving with a nitrox mixture of 34.8% O2 along the deck of a wreck at 90 feet. Your buddy (who is nitrox certified) has assured you that it is safe as long as you stay above the deck. You look around for your buddy and finally locate him lying completely motionless on the sand at the bottom of the shipwreck (which you know is at 115 feet). You should:
a. have not planned and done this dive with that nitrox mixture
b. swim down to assess your buddy and determine if you can assist or rescue him
c. spend no more than one minute looking for another diver to go down to that depth (since you had noticed all the other divers on the boat were using regular air) before surfacing normally to get help
d. immediately do a normal ascent to the surface to get help from someone who has air or nitrox 32%

3. You are diving with a 36% nitrox mixture and had planned to dive to a maximum depth of 90 feet. 35 minutes into the dive you notice your depth gauge indicates that you are at 100 feet, and you begin to feel numbness and tingling in your left arm. You should:
a. immediately ascend to 90 feet and if the symptoms go away, continue the dive
b. recognize that nitrox 36% is actually safe up to 115 feet, and that you are probably just anxious
c. terminate the dive immediately and ascend directly to the surface at 30 feet per minute.
d. none of the above.

These are the type of unplanned events that I would expect a nitrox instructor to help you be prepared to address at a moments notice ...

 

[tomfcrist]

@AFTERDARK,

Before you shoot out claims like "A $100+ nitrox course is a rip off pure and simple." Try to see it from an instructors point of veiw. I am going to spend about 8 hrs teaching someone how to safely dive nitrox, which means i am a theory teacher, and a math teacher......so $12 per hour is a rip off? Do you think people like me should work for free? The truth is, Instructors dont make alot of money teaching diving. We do it because we love it, and we want to create a culture of safety in the dive industry. If you think that we are overpaid, i challenge you to prove it to me.

Yes we still teach PPO2 and gas laws in OW courses, and no we dont have the time to teach a nitrox course during an OW course.

 

[diverrex]

There are a variety of things a good instructor should be covering during a nitrox course. In particular, you should be comfortable with what to do in case things don't go exactly as you had planned. You can choose to dive in whatever manner you want - I just would choose not to buddy with you on dives and hope no one ever has to place themselves at risk to rescue you.

If you have to think for more than a few seconds about each of these brief senarios below, you probably should take a course ...

1. You go to pick up your nitrox tank at the dive shop and it is labeled 35.2% O2. You should plan to dive with this nitrox mixture to a maximum depth of:
a. 99 feet
b. 95 feet
c. 90 feet
d. I don't know the answer

2. You are diving with a nitrox mixture of 34.8% O2 along the deck of a wreck at 90 feet. Your buddy (who is nitrox certified) has assured you that it is safe as long as you stay above the deck. You look around for your buddy and finally locate him lying completely motionless on the sand at the bottom of the shipwreck (which you know is at 115 feet). You should:
a. have not planned and done this dive with that nitrox mixture
b. swim down to assess your buddy and determine if you can assist or rescue him
c. spend no more than one minute looking for another diver to go down to that depth (since you had noticed all the other divers on the boat were using regular air) before surfacing normally to get help
d. immediately do a normal ascent to the surface to get help from someone who has air or nitrox 32%

3. You are diving with a 36% nitrox mixture and had planned to dive to a maximum depth of 90 feet. 35 minutes into the dive you notice your depth gauge indicates that you are at 100 feet, and you begin to feel numbness and tingling in your left arm. You should:
a. immediately ascend to 90 feet and if the symptoms go away, continue the dive
b. recognize that nitrox 36% is actually safe up to 115 feet, and that you are probably just anxious
c. terminate the dive immediately and ascend directly to the surface at 30 feet per minute.
d. none of the above.

These are the type of unplanned events that I would expect a nitrox instructor to help you be prepared to address at a moments notice ...

These questions highlight to me what is wrong with much of scuba training. I think I'm better prepared to answer them based on all the reading I've done on SB and elsewhere more than from my Nitrox course. That is not a criticism of my course or instructor but more the reality of the difference from learning over an extended period of time and from multiple sources rather than any type of condensed classroom sessions. Now maybe if I hadn't taken the course in the first place I would have had a harder time learning later from self reading, but I'd say having the manual as a resource material to refer back to as I read other information has been more important that the actual initial course and instructor sessions. And that brings me to my point of what is wrong with typical scuba training, it's primary objective is certification not learning, and there is a big difference between the two.

 

[AfterDark]

@AFTERDARK,

Before you shoot out claims like "A $100+ nitrox course is a rip off pure and simple." Try to see it from an instructors point of veiw. I am going to spend about 8 hrs teaching someone how to safely dive nitrox, which means i am a theory teacher, and a math teacher......so $12 per hour is a rip off? Do you think people like me should work for free? The truth is, Instructors dont make alot of money teaching diving. We do it because we love it, and we want to create a culture of safety in the dive industry. If you think that we are overpaid, i challenge you to prove it to me.

Yes we still teach PPO2 and gas laws in OW courses, and no we dont have the time to teach a nitrox course during an OW course.

An instructor isn't necessary to learn NITROX. The information can be bought and a test taken online or at a LDS IMO $60.00 MAX. It isn't complex or hard to understand. That's the way it should be. However if someone isn't comfortable and wants to hire you to teach them well, son knock yourself out charge him/her whatever they'll pay.

 

[tomfcrist]

An instructor isn't necessary to learn NITROX. The information can be bought and a test taken online or at a LDS IMO $60.00 MAX. It isn't complex or hard to understand. That's the way it should be. However if someone isn't comfortable and wants to hire you to teach them well, son knock yourself out charge him/her whatever they'll pay.

Maybe for a PADI course......

I agree that it isnt too hard to comprehend, but i would never certify someone to use nitrox if they are unaware of the risks involved, or unable to calculate their PPO2/EAD/MOD. This really cant be verified online, but must be done in front of an instructor. Do you know any divers that have killed themselves on EANx? If it was so simple and easy, nobody would kill themselves with it right?

 

[DiveNav]

........ i would never certify someone to use nitrox if they are unaware of the risks involved, or unable to calculate their PPO2/EAD/MOD. ....

Agree!

........ This really cant be verified online, .....

Why?

Alberto (aka eDiver)