Feeling ripped off by LDS – please advise.

[Nemrod]

Look guys, there is a HUGE markup on scuba gear just like there is on many types of sporting and leisure activity equipment. HUGE markup. The LDS simply refuse to discount and as a result they are going under--one by one. Most charge absolute full retail. I refuse to pay full retail to anybody--period. They have many of you snowed with all this super critical and life support and blah blah mumbo jumbo. This scuba stuff is largely simple and mass produced and often marketed under a variety of labels with minor changes with HUGE markup. The 600 dollars for a molded plastic regulator is BS even if it is Apeks or whatever----it is a molded piece of plastic with a few other plastic and silicone molded parts, probably about 50 dollars worth of stuff plus another hundred in manufacturing costs--the rest is profit to everyone along the way from the big plant that produces all this crap right on to when the LDS charges you full retail markup--why---because you will pay it and smile doing it because it is life support equipment. N

 

[akscubaduck1]

60 bucks what a rip it, better be nice with an inner tube & cover. I work for a LDS. MY flag & float only cost me 25.00$ retail. I can't help to think greed is some how involved. I don't like on line sales. LDS can't match the price. But damn at that price I'd shop else were.

 

[cowboyneal]

Here's a couple simple points: capitalism works both ways, and I buy from the place that gives me the best product at the best price, no exception. While I might give the LDS a chance to meet, I usually don't because they usually won't. I never had a LDS "fix my regulator" on an emergency basis or do anything else for me other than on their own time even when I had shopped there before (in other words, they didn't give a rat's you know what). Hello? LeisurePro is in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world. Their overhead is huge just on space. They have a good business model and are highly competitive (there's that pesky capitalism again). If a LDS can't compete, well, then they need to go out of business and stop blaiming the internet or Leisure Pro or whatever on their own problems and failures, IMHO.

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

In addition to airfills, our local LDS also maintains and controls the only decent local dive venues, so I patronize them without reservation. For landlocked divers who are only going to dive on vacation, buying on-line equipment is cheaper. For those of us without an ocean on our doorstep and who want to keep diving locally on a regular basis, it's hard to show up with LeisurePro equipment at local dive sites run by the LDS. Our LDS puts time and money into making regional diving easy and safe. It's a matter of choice, I chose to pay the higher prices because I use facilities run by the retailer and feel it would be wrong not to do so. For those who don't use their facilities, or couldn't afford to dive otherwise, the on-line route may be right for them.

 

[RJTY]

I get so tired of reading these LDS vs Online threas. I do, however, love to read the ones about people buying online on getting screwed. Is everything about saving a buck? I visit my LDS many times a month. Most times I am not even buying something. I just do it to stay involved in the sport when I am not diving. I am glad to see everybody and they are glad to see me. When I do make a purchase, I may pay a little more, but I feel good about my purchase. When I have a problem with it, they are right there to help me. I dont have to ship it back, I dont have to wait for it to be shipped back to me. Thats what a good deal is. When you buy something and you feel good about it. Its not always about price. Its about peace of mind. I enjoy supporting my LDS and I enjoy there support.

 

[photohikedive]

I do not think I have read a post that the customer had problems with an online store. It is always that the newbie, fresh from his/her OW cert gets hosed by the dive shop selling him/her gear he/she doesn't need at a much higher price than he/she should of paid.

when I was first interested in a BP/W my LDS, who I respected greatly, started shoving some vest BC in my face, saying how it was just as streamlined as a BP/W. I don't see how, something with all that padding, pockets, lines, cords, straps, strings, etc., can be as drag free as a sheet of metal, some 2" webbing, and a wing.

Although, I am sure had they sold BP/W's they would have been telling me what a great choice I was making. Clearly a case of where they were pushing thier product was more important than me making the purchase that I would be happiest with.

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Look guys, there is a HUGE markup on scuba gear just like there is on many types of sporting and leisure activity equipment. HUGE markup. This scuba stuff is largely simple and mass produced and often marketed under a variety of labels with minor changes with HUGE markup. The 600 dollars for a molded plastic regulator is BS even if it is Apeks or whatever----it is a molded piece of plastic with a few other plastic and silicone molded parts, probably about 50 dollars worth of stuff plus another hundred in manufacturing costs--the rest is profit to everyone N

The same can be said of almost anything --- a prosthetic heart valve is a few ounces of metal and plastic and yet costs thousands of dollars... much of that goes to R and D, a intense amount of quality control and liability insurance. Profit is what drives development. Without profit, we still would be slugging across the ocean floor in iron-helmeted suits. Nothing costs much in terms of materials, exempting gold and precious metals and gems. What does a car costs in terms of metal and plastic, a few hundred bucks? And the most expensive computers are based on silicon, mere sand.

 

[PerroneFord]

And the most expensive computers are based on silicon, mere sand.

So, would you pay $2000 for a home PC at CompUSA when you could buy it online from HP for $600? I mean if it breaks you could simply take it back to CompUSA. If you have questions about its operation, you could call CompUSA. How about if it were used to run your business. Therefore maknig it a critical machine to you. Would you buy local then and accept the $1400 markup?

 

[Immense]

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately this thread took the old “Which is better LDS or Internet” turn which was not my intention. I simply wanted your opinions on the flag cost being overly inflated – I will always go to the 2nd LDS where I bought my gear and buy stuff like regs, bc, octo for the simple reason that they can service it etc..

Bigcape I am not sure how to reply to your post.. Did you even read my initial post? I spent over $2,000 at my LDS on gear (not the one I bought the flag from) so I really don’t understand your post unless you did not read my initial one.

At the shop where I bought all of my gear, the manager threw in a free scubapro regulator bag, probably cost them about $20.00 but the fact that he was nice enough to show his appreciation for my business will forever keep me a customer. When the other LDS charged me 3 X the cost of that flag are they making the same effort?

Just my thoughts. Again – I did not mean for this to turn into the LDS vs Internet thread

 

[kidsdream]

This scuba stuff is largely simple and mass produced and often marketed under a variety of labels with minor changes with HUGE markup. The 600 dollars for a molded plastic regulator is BS even if it is Apeks or whatever----it is a molded piece of plastic with a few other plastic and silicone molded parts, probably about 50 dollars worth of stuff plus another hundred in manufacturing costs--the rest is profit to everyone along the way from the big plant that produces all this crap right on to when the LDS charges you full retail markup--why---because you will pay it and smile doing it because it is life support equipment. N

I could not resist. Each precision injection mold with (slides and a water cooled manifolds) has a total cost of ownership(including the required tuning and engineering support) in the $ 50 - 100K range. Now multiply that by the number of unique molds in Reg. Now simple decorative tools run out $15-20K.

Now factor in the Design, Engineering and Validation costs.

I am sure you have done the math .... not.

Sorry for the flame, but even in the Auto Parts business with minimum runs runs of at least 20K unit/year tooling costs are huge. A good factor would be tooling costs = 8 t0 10% of the annual sales for most companies.