Going from BP-wing to Jacket BCD ...

[Akimbo]

This has to be a first for this subject matter. Sixty replies of reasoned discussions explaining characteristics and personal preferences instead of dogma and demeaning statements. Well done ladies and gentleman.

 

[OldNSalty]

If you want to keep using the harness, you can add quick release buckles that may improve your ability to get into and out of the harness. You are allowed to modify the harness so it works for you.

When I got my first one, i immediately changed it and made the shoulder straps slide smoothly, so i could get the thing on and off much easier. Just because a Hog harness does not work for you, doesn't mean you should avoid a BP/W.

I might do that-thanks. I haven't cut much of the webbing yet so I have enough to make some modifications I am sure.

 

[David_57]

To be honest buoyancy wise I did not see a big difference between the jacket and BP/Wing the only reason I changed to the BP/Wing setup was so I could switch to doubles and be ably to hang my deco bottles, if I had not decided to go this route and stick with rec dives I would still be using my Genesis Cobra 2 BCD. As for the weight belt slipping off problem I find my crotch strap alleviates this.

 

[stargost]

I switch to a BC/jacket every time I go in a tropical place where diving will not be the primary or only vacation goal and where the dive operator will provide all the gear anyway. I bring reg, mask and DC, and it’s a lot already. Travelling with scuba gear is painful, especially when not going on dedicated scuba vacations !
As this diving would be easy OW/recreational, in very easy conditions (viz, temp), advantages of the BP/W are no worth the additional weight.
Besides, these are also the places where you do have to wait a bit at the surface before and after the dive and in this case, a jacket is little easier (while I don’t find the Bpw really a problem).
In these places, you often have a DM, and he’ll carry the SMB, reel and all the mess you need to get into large suit pockets (stuff which do not fit into a standard BC anyway, and drag terribly if you use one).
As you mostly wear of 3mm shorty, no need for extra weight nor SS plate.
So in this particular case, for couple of nice and easy dives one or 2 days in 85F water above 100ft, to be honest, why care about the BC style/gear ?!

It would be true that planning for a more intensive dives vacations, with 4 dives a day for a week, even with the same conditions, I’d bring the all stuff, as the bpw will still improve the trim=>effort=>air consumption, etc … at least in theory ;-)
The other reason would be going in places where you are not sure what kind of material you’ll find, and don’t want to end with a leaky BC. But then this is outside subject.

 

[stargost]

To be honest buoyancy wise I did not see a big difference between the jacket and BP/Wing the only reason I changed to the BP/Wing setup was so I could switch to doubles and be ably to hang my deco bottles, if I had not decided to go this route and stick with rec dives I would still be using my Genesis Cobra 2 BCD. As for the weight belt slipping off problem I find my crotch strap alleviates this.

Buoyancy probably not, but for trim, I tend to think the bpw helps poor new divers to stay horizontal. A Back inflated BC being better than a pure jacket.
Back to my previous post, there are also condition where you may not care too mcuh about trim ;-)

 

[David_57]

Buoyancy probably not, but for trim, I tend to think the bpw helps poor new divers to stay horizontal. A Back inflated BC being better than a pure jacket.
Back to my previous post, there are also condition where you may not care too mcuh about trim ;-)

I have seen many divers with a BP/Wing setup riding a bicycle, and many Jacket style BCD divers with perfect trim If I was only Rec diving down south I would be throwing a small Jacket style BCD in my suitcase.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Any good diver can make anything work.
(including but not limited to: Jacket BC, Back inflate Hybrid BC, Conventional BP/W, old style backpack with or without BC, plain tank with just a harness, no harness at all - hand hold the tank, side mount.)

What it all boils down to is:
Experienced divers and divers that have used a variety of different BC systems choose the tool that best fits the diving style and environment they will most likely be diving in. The problem with inexperienced divers is they tend to get caught up in silly details and get influenced by people that love to split hairs that have chosen one product over another because it happens to be what they own and they're proud that they own it.

For me personally, if I was on vacation somewhere nice and lets say I didn't bring any dive gear because the vacation wasn't about diving. If I had an opportunity to get in an unplanned dive and all that was available for rental was a poodle jacket, hell yeah I'd use it, and all the rest of the stuff too including an air II and big 'ol console on a retractor if that's all there was.

It's not what I would choose to get the job done at home, but a chance to get wet? yes I would use it without blinking an eye.

I look at some divemasters and dive pros that just about live in the ocean that have thousands of dives and are using old torn up jacket BC's that have turned all brown from the sun and look like they are ready to dissolve into pieces the next time they take them into the water. I'll bet most of those pros are probably better divers and have seen a hell of a lot more than most people on this board and maybe a better part of the most vocal BP/W users.

Even though I manufacture plates myself, I have come to the realization over the last several months that the important thing is that people get out there and dive. Sure I'd love it if people bought Freedom Plates, but I know people will buy what they buy and if someone wants a plate, fine, if not, fine. A couple of years ago you would have not heard this coming out of my mouth.
If someone chooses a jacket BC or back inflate hybrid over a BP/W based on an educated and informed decision, I'm perfectly OK with that.
I does not make them any less of a diver.

And yes, I will buddy dive with people in Jackets using an Air II, a console on a retractor, split fins, and a dry snorkel.

 

[halocline]

An experienced diver can have equally good trim in a jacket, back inflate, or BP/W because the small amount of air you may add in the bc is first going to the back area anyway.

Trim is 90% weight distribution; it has almost nothing to do with the wing or air bladder. Steel plates are excellent for weight distribution because they put the weight right in between the two sources of buoyancy. (lungs and wing)

Sure, good divers can dive well in jacket BCs, they can also dive well carrying extra weight, or even being underweighted. But it's not as enjoyable, at least to me.

I used a jacket BC from time to time during my DM course. Every time I remembered how much I didn't like it. Honestly, I can't imagine an experienced diver not noticing a huge difference between the two.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Another important issue, at least to me anyway, is the amount of air that is needed in the BC or BP/W at depth. If I am wearing a thick 7 mm suit and 24 lbs of ballast, I will need maybe 20 lbs of lift (air in the bladder) at 100 ft depth to maintain neutral bouyancy at the start of the dive. Some jacket Bc's really strart to squeeze as they approach their capacity, which can be somewhat annoying and even restrictive. Conversely, the BP/W (or back inflate BC) does not feel much different at depth when it is near capacity (no squeezr at all). When I first started using a BP/W, I was surprised how much I had relied upon the squeeze factor, to provide feedback on the ascent as to when I needed to vent the BC. Without this feedback, I tended to let the BP/W expand a little more than I should have on ascent for the first few dives.

So, for warm water diving, where the diver needs to add only maybe 6-8 lbs of lift (air) to the Bouyancy Control device, it matters much less if it is a BC or a BP/W.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

That may have been years ago, but it no longer is. The jacket BC was an invention of the dive gear industry that's emblematic of many of the bad qualities that plague modern recreational dive gear design. It's basically a life jacket with tank straps that feels nice and cozy in the dive shop, where purchasing decisions are made, and mostly serves beginners in class who are spending half their time on the surface. It was designed to sell, not actually perform well while diving.

I'd like to see your source for this revisionist dive gear history. I did a yahoo search for Scubapro history and came up with this bio for Dick Bonin, co-founder of Scubapro.

Dick Bonin is one of the most famous Navy UDT/SEALS and equipment manufacturers in diving. Bonin got his start as a Navy officer assigned to some of the earliest UDT/SEAL teams. He was Submersible Operations Officer active in demolition and testing the latest dive gear for the Navy.

...

It was January 3, 1963 that they opened the doors of SCUBAPRO with just partner Gustav Dalla Valle's $20,000 European credit line. Bonin surrounded him with the smartest engineers he could find and pushed his Research and Development Department to produce the next great piece of diving equipment that would be the envy of every diver.

...

Beauchat, a good friend of Gustav, was making Jet Fins, and asked Gustav if they could sell them for him in the United States through SCUBAPRO. Dick took some to a scuba show and immediately sold all of them. Later the next week he was discovering the fins were classic. He was embarrassed that he did not know. From that day on, he insisted that Research and Development and himself do a thorough inspection and test on every item they produced before introducing it to the public. He would never again market a piece of equipment without knowing it inside and out. He went on to form a panel of dive experts that would try the products before selling them to the general public. This reputation for quality propelled SCUBAPRO to the number one position of dive equipment manufacturers in the world.