Integrated Octo or not?

[ECpirates96]

Like BubbleTrubble said go with a second HOG Second and they now have the yellow face plates if you want to be able to quickly IF the two seconds. I will also vote against the integrated. I recently bought a used BC for my wife and am now looking to get a factory Scubpro inflator to replace the integrated octo.

 

[Damselfish]

It's not going to kill you. But I think they have more disadvantages than advantages. And even more disadvantages if you actually have to use it. Those are beaten to death on many threads so no need to repeat . If you've read the pros and cons, have tried one, and still want one, go for it.

(And yes, I have used them. Actually learned on one and rented gear with them for awhile. And decided I did not want one when I bought my gear.)

 

[lsorensen]

I've yet to see a VALID argument against using the AIR II or any similar system.

Then you have not paid attention at all.

The non standard inflator hose is clearly a good argument against it (I did see at least one post on SB where someone had a hassle on vacation because it broke and it was practically impossible to find a replacement).

It clearly makes managing buoyancy while using it for breathing more complicated. You are trying to do two thins at once with one item. Doesn't mean it can't be done, but it will be harder and it will be different than how you normally do it, which can't be good in an emergency.

I don't know how it attaches to the BC so I am not sure about rinsing it and servicing it and such. I do know that if my BC has a problem, I can rent a BC and use my regs or vice versa. With the integrated, probably not because you have tied your reg setup to your BC setup. That is quite the drop in flexibility.

Whether being "non standard" in terms of common equipment, well that's debatable and the BP/W guys are already different there, as are people trained on older equipment too so I won't count that as a negative, although some people legitimately could.

And does eliminating one hose really justify all that crap? I would much rather have two identical performance second stages. One function per item so it can be the best item possible for the job. You don' use your dive light as a hammer do you? I am sure someone could make it have a nice solid case so you could. Not that you are likely to need a hammer diving.

So there are plenty of valid arguments against them. On the other hand I have yet to see any valid argument FOR the existence of integrated seconds.

 

[BDSC]

Here is an excellent response from another thread on the subject from a guy named "BurhanMuntasser". It really does a good job of addressing many of the "Valid Arguments" against using an intergrated Octo.

"I have been using AirSource/AirII for the last 23 years no problem including OOA situations (one involved a stray diver who is not my buddy out of nowhere coming to grab my primary). Here are my views on some points:

1. I don't confuse the AirII with my snorkel!! I know where everything is and "how it feels" for me be to be able to discern the difference with my eyes closed even when using mitts or dry gloves. I know where everything is attached also. Folks who confused one piece of equipment with another in an emergency, they probably never practiced using their equipment to the point where they know where it is by reaching for it without having to see it (just like finding your nose with your finger without having to stand in front of a mirror to see where it is).

2. I use a 42" LP hose for my primary and run it under my arm in addition to a SS swivel. The little extra length will allow me to donate the primary SS and still be comfortable to both divers. I run it under my arm to avoid the hose sticking out and possibly get caught on something and more importantly it allows me to be in control of the ascent. I want to avoid the OOA diver being out of my reach during their panicky attempt to get to the surface, I want to be in control/charge. I usually throw the 42” SS hose for free to my customers when they buy a regulator/AirII setup no problem. I’d also throw the SS swivel for free to my customers depending on their loyalty and attitude.

3. In a real OOA situation especially when the OOA person has no air in their lungs, they will grab the only thing they see in front of them blowing nice sexy air bubbles, the primary SS in the donor's mouth. Even in the scenario where the donor has a standalone Octo, the OOA person would most likely grab the donor’s primary SS not Octo.

4. Some folks note that the AirII type setup is difficult to breathe from U/W. This is because they probably don't have it tuned properly. Most technicians are overzealous in de-tuning the AirII on the idea that they don't want it to free flow. I don't think that this is necessary. I tune AirII’s just below the free flow point and its performance U/W is adequate for an emergency situation.

5. Ability to inflate/deflate BC with AirII: I don’t know why people would have difficulty doing it unless they, again, are not familiar with their equipment or lack experience. I see people struggle with using their BC inflator especially the oral inflator on standard BC LPI all the time. This is clearly due to the fact that students don’t spend enough time practicing their skills and becoming experts in the use of their equipment in courses and in their diving. There is absolutely no need to use both hands if one is familiar with their equipment. I frequently observe that divers struggle with their standard LPI and have to use one hand to hold it and the second hand to press the buttons.

6. Someone mentioned that they are concerned about their ability to dive while on vacation should their AirII hose becomes problematic and no spare is available. If this is a concern, I’d take a spare hose with me or have the ability to go “manual” during my diving on that trip. There are also adaptors that would convert from quick disconnect to AirII connection. I don’t find this issue a problem one way or another.

7. When you buy an AirII or an Octo and they are connected to the same air supply as your primary, they are most likely of no use to you. They are used to help your buddy not you in the greater majority of the time.

8. I practice OOA breathing scenarios on regular basis with my regular dive buddies if available. If you don’t practice them, you will have a problem with ANY type of contingency setup you have no matter how easy or good it is IMO. In contrast, ANY type of contingency scuba will be a problem with “insta-buddies” especially if there was no discussion or actual practice of emergency procedures before the dive. Without practice and agreement on the conduct of emergency procedure including OOA situations, ANY procedure will become problematic and possibly lead to a catastrophe regardless of it is an Octo or AirII. People’s brains turn to “mush” and they are all “thumbs” in emergencies U/W especially in OOA. Without prior agreement and adequate practice, even simple tasks will become difficult to do U/W.

At the end, I don’t believe that either way is superior to the other as related to use for emergency. AirII setup, however, is less clutter. Both need practice and “intimate” familiarity to the point where one can do it with “eyes closed.” "

 

[RJP]

Integrated Octo or not?

I used to dive with one, and don't any more. Personally, I think a combo octo/inflator is like one of those little donut-sized spare tires:

They both seem like a really great idea from a "streamlining" point of view...

...right up until the point that you need to actually use one for its intended purpose.

:shocked2

 

[Downing]

I go back and forth on this. I really liked having a three-hose setup but didn't particularly like having a big, clunky octo/safe second combo, in my case an Atomic SS1, hanging off my left shoulder. So much for streamlining, lol.

I was also concerned about what would happen if I were in in an OOA situation and the other diver was panicked, which would be likely. Although the SS1 breathes just as well as my primary, the bend in the inflator hose was so sharp that it became somewhat difficult to keep the mouthpiece in my mouth without using one hand to hold it in place. I recently changed BCs from a jacket style to a back inflate, which for some reason made the bend in the hose even sharper. I figure that in an OOA crisis, I'm probably going to have my hands full as it is just getting that situation under control. I really don't want to have to fight with my inflator hose at the same time.

So a few weeks ago, I decided to bite the bullet, bought a dedicated octo and returned to the traditional setup. I don't particularly like having to deal with four hoses instead of three, but all my hoses are either MyFlex or Phantom so at least they're light and flexible.

That's what currently works for me. If I change my mind, that's ok because I've saved all the parts and can easily switch back just by swapping a few hoses.

 

[Randy43068]

having to deal with an "octo" and it's placement has always been a problem.

Alas, some smart people came up with a solution. Hang the second as a necklace, use a long hose for the primary and the problem goes away! Imagine that, a well thought out placement of one's regulators. Who would have imagined that!

It's simple, elegant and works. It flat out works yet people resist it continually.

 

[robertarak]

.......so there we were in the nice warm, clear waters of Cozumel just haning out on the wreck. That's when we saw the paniced diver with no reg in her mouth. (insert very interesting story here)....even after having my primary reg and breathing she was still paniced and finning wildly for the surface. I had to rapidy deflate her BC and my wing at the same time while my teammate arrested her finning to stop our rapid ascent. We got to her calmed down, to the anchor line and completed stops before taking her aboard our boat safe and sound. Not something I would have wanted to do with an octo/inflator. I don't want to have to choose between a rapid vent and breathing.

 

[BDSC]

I don't want to have to choose between a rapid vent and breathing.

I don't follow you here. Why would you have to choose between the two? Are you saying you can't breathe from an intergrated octo and vent at the same time?

 

[robertarak]

I don't follow you here. Why would you have to choose between the two? Are you saying you can't breathe from an intergrated octo and vent at the same time?

I said rapid dump...I rolled to my right to get the inflator to the highest part of my body while holding her inflator high over her head and dumped both. I would not want to go "head up" just to be able vent while venting her bc, managing my primary hose, arresting her paniced ascent and trying to calm her all at the same time.