The cost of Padi

[Obsessed?]

New divers most certainly have the qualifications to determine if they felt qualified to dive in open water or not.

Since it's an Open Water class, a diver who took the class, then didn't feel comfortable in open water would, by definition have a legitimate complaint.

Terry

Well, maybe since they've only been in the water 4 times, they aren't comfortable yet? Also, some people just weren't made for diving (like you should see me play golf - they pay me to stay off the courses...lol). Look, you can't blame the instructor or the agency or whatever for some people's lack of diving skills, and those people seem to complain the most (like its the instructors fault they can't clear their mask)...also, you gotta compare apples to apples (complaints coming from a reliable source with no 'axe to grind' or any other thing) and not just make stuff up out of whole cloth (ie, the claim that PADI is overcharging for a manual)...just MHO...

On the use of clip art, etc., there are several conditions stated in the paragraphs copied from the PADI website, all of which are very, extremely, reasonable. As someone that has worked in the areas of technology and trademarks/copyrights/service marks, etc., believe me when I tell you that those allowed usages are pretty broad and very liberal compared to most license agreements that allow use of a party's Intellectual Property...they must have run afoul in some respect, or just don't understand what their responsibilities are, or phrased there question to PADI in a way tha the person believed it was a "pay for play" usage over and above the standard license. I have been dealing with PADI for many years, and they have always been professional and reasonable. They are in business to make money - this is America, we're the capitalist country, remember? Anyone that can take a sport like scuba diving and almost single-handedly change it (with he help of equipment manufacturers) from a sport for young, strong, in-shape males, to one that even great-grandma can get into, well, they have my capitalist attention and admiration...most everyone else followed along and traded on their visionary leads (no offense intended to anyone)...all of this is just MHO...

 

[TCDiver1]

I don't see anyone saying that Catherine.

I was simply pointing out that PADI does allow renewed members to use their logo, clip-art, etc, at no additional cost, as long as it is used within their guidelines. There is a licensing agreement that details that on the PADI website. If your friend are renewed PADI members, they can go online and see it in the Pro section of that site.

Feel free to have them PM me and i can explain how they get on.

 

[alcina]

Look, you can't blame the instructor ... for some people's lack of diving skills, and those people seem to complain the most (like its the instructors fault they can't clear their mask)...

Yes, you can. That is the instructor's job. But this is a topic for a new thread...if anyone wants to pursue it perhaps we can make a new thread?

The topic for this one is the overcharging and who is responsible

 

[ticokitty]

All I know is I've gotten a lot of cheap, free, excellently run trip/workshops from Padi certified instructors and they loaned me my books. You guys sound a little wacky. Diving is an expensive sport without all the certifications, but so is college. Unless you are going professional, you don't need all the certifications.
When I did my OW there were some folks doing the Advanced Course that had less then 10 dives!!! They were floundering around freaking me out. There are other ways to learn than to pay someone to drag you around for a certification card.

It's not the certifications that count - it's whether you kick sand up in my face when I'm trying to look at my little sea slug friends or try to molest every little puffer fish that passes by!

 

[LavaSurfer]

You guys, I am not bashing PADI. If you say we cannot discuss PADI at all, its fine.

LAVAsurfer: Do you have to pay to play? I am starting to realize that maybe I don't need to pay so much.

I didn't see where you bashed PADI
It does happen though.

You are right that maybe you don't need to pay as much.
I have seen instructors Lend books and videa as well as discount classes.

I have a $120 BC that gets me where I need to go.
My Reg cost's $129 and at 140 FSW worked just as well as my buddies $600 Reg.
And yes, I did break that magical 130 Mark! Oops. At least it was planned.

I have seen nitrox courses from $80 to $160 but the cost of the books and video are the only fixed price. The difference is in the shops.

I paid $160 for my Rescue course. My friend just paid $280 for a TDI course that taught the same skills.

I want to buy a BP/Wing setup but I have a hard time dealing with the outrageous prices for an airbag and a hunk of stainless steel and 10 dallars worth of webbing that they charge $50 but I understand the Supply and demand principal. If one company would lower thier price $100 they all would have to compete but right now, why would they. Its not like Walmart sells this stuff.

 

[Obsessed?]

Yes, you can. That is the instructor's job. But this is a topic for a new thread...if anyone wants to pursue it perhaps we can make a new thread?

The topic for this one is the overcharging and who is responsible

So, you are saying that it's the instructors fault if someone can't dive? Flip it around: everyone should be able to dive if the instructor is a good one? I've had several students that couldn't dive in a bathtub, regardless of how much time I spent with them. So, for me, that idea doesn't work. Not everyone can swim, or golf, or do math or play baseball or ride a motorcycle or ski or be a brain surgeon or whatever, regardless of the amount of teaching they have, or by whom...so I can't go with you there, although of course I respect the opinion you have, for you...I also agree that this is probably a break off topic now if it's going to continue in discussion?

 

[Warren_L]

So, you are saying that it's the instructors fault if someone can't dive? Flip it around: everyone should be able to dive if the instructor is a good one? I've had several students that couldn't dive in a bathtub, regardless of how much time I spent with them. So, for me, that idea doesn't work. Not everyone can swim, or golf, or do math or play baseball or ride a motorcycle or ski or be a brain surgeon or whatever, regardless of the amount of teaching they have, or by whom...so I can't go with you there, although of course I respect the opinion you have, for you...I also agree that this is probably a break off topic now if it's going to continue in discussion?

The fact of the matter is, there are going to be people who cannot dive. No matter how hard you work with them and how much time they put in, some people are not going to be able to do so. Whether it's a mental challenge or physical challenge, there will be some people who cannot overcome these issues, and it's not the instructor's fault. It's only the instructor's fault if the instructor overlooks this or really does not address the issue and allows the student to continue.

 

[DiamondHeadDiver]

So, you are saying that it's the instructors fault if someone can't dive? Flip it around: everyone should be able to dive if the instructor is a good one? I've had several students that couldn't dive in a bathtub, regardless of how much time I spent with them. So, for me, that idea doesn't work. Not everyone can swim, or golf, or do math or play baseball or ride a motorcycle or ski or be a brain surgeon or whatever, regardless of the amount of teaching they have, or by whom...so I can't go with you there, although of course I respect the opinion you have, for you...I also agree that this is probably a break off topic now if it's going to continue in discussion?

If you are a scuba instructor from any agency and have certified "students that couldn't dive in a bathtub", you need to have your Instructor certification revoked.
I can only hope that your analogy was referring to students who didn't pass the course.
If I remember the wording from PADI correctly, "students must demonstrate mastery of the skills". That doesn't mean that they accomplished it once under direct supervision.

 

[Cacia]

Well, Warren and MIke, what percentage of people "don't pass"? I am sure somebody has the numbers on this.

 

[Diver Dennis]

And how many fail "Discover Scuba"? I have seen some train wrecks coming out of that program.