Padi Master scuba diver

[Pullmyfinger]

This Guy is a "Master Prophet".

Bishop E. Bernard Jordanersonal Prophecy

I'm kind of fuzzy on what that means exactly, but I'm pretty sure it's WAY up there!

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[TSandM]

I really enjoyed that post, and he has a very good point. A PADI Master Scuba Diver is whatever PADI says it is. And I learned about the concept of stipulative definitions -- thank you for the lesson, mudstollens!

 

[chrpai]

I really enjoyed that post, and he has a very good point. A PADI Master Scuba Diver is whatever PADI says it is. And I learned about the concept of stipulative definitions -- thank you for the lesson, mudstollens!

And thank you for the summary.

 

[James R]

From my perspective, the MSD program's goal is simply to keep new divers engaged and retained. I don't think the idea is to make someone think they are a master of anything. Obviously this means that people are active AND spending money on additional training.

I can't count how many people I have met over the years that have taken OW & AOW to go on a trip or something and are never seen or heard from again. They definitely are not diving locally, much less taking any additional continuing education. I have many of these people as "friends" on Facebook. I never see them post about diving at all, much less going diving.

As an instructor, I will pay for the MSD card myself if I have a student take all the required courses with me AND wants to have it. It would be the least I could do after all that, right?

I think people make too big of a deal about this, and belittle it more than they really need to. A lot of you guys sit up there on your high-horse passing judgment on people that have the card.

When you judge someone it says more about you than them.

 

[boulderjohn]

Wow, for someone with such an intitmate knowledge of language, you've forgotten the rule about knowing your audience and establishing the hook. When I read something like that and see several paragraphs to follow, I simply skip it.

I thought only Dan Volker and BoulderJohn provoked that response in me. Congratulations! And only 22 posts.

It's an admitted failing of mine.

Howard Gardner's Leading Minds: An Anatomy of Leadership beautifully details the problems of communicating to a diverse audience. It is easy to forget that detailed statements that include complexities leave the portion of the audience with limited intellectual capacity behind. To reach them, you need nearly comic book responses that omit complexity, almost to the point of lying.

I'll try to keep that in mind in the future.

 

[chrpai]

It is easy to forget that detailed statements that include complexities leave the portion of the audience with limited intellectual capacity behind. To reach them, you need nearly comic book responses that omit complexity, almost to the point of lying.

Not limited intellect, limited patience for hot air. Get to your point and make it compelling.

 

[diverrex]

Not to get off topic but Boulderjohn's posts are ones that I typically enjoy more than others. Interesting how what appeals to some turns off others. Not sure what that says about each group, probably nothing other than people are different.

 

[modustollens]

It's not that I forgot the audience (that's an important part of rhetoric, and has been for 1000s of years, e.g., Cicero's De Oratore makes the point); it is just that I don't care in this case about hooking the audience. I only wanted to point out the nature of stipulative definitions. I wrote not to entertain or market,

If people are not interested in looking up the meaning of words they don't know or to follow the details either due to a lack of time, will or intellect, it is their prerogative to remain amongst the οἱ πολλοί. I wrote not to entertain or market.

But I suppose it is that attitude that is part of the reason why SCUBA course content has declined, been truncated or simplified and the books written at a grade 5 or 6 reading level littered with 'and/or': many people care not for complexity, for the subtle understanding fine distinctions enable, neither for the aesthetics of knowledge, but only for the easy, the immediate and what is of short term utility sweetly packaged as info- or edutainment.

I shall, therefore, lower my expectations; but not my standards.

p.s.: why are PADI books littered with 'and/or' (I saw it several times in the Nitrox course book)? I asked my instructor about this but I don't think he understood the point. Does PADI proofread? 'And' means both are necessary while 'or' means one is sufficient. Of course, 'or' is also inclusive so the 'and' is redundant; and if the 'or' is read exclusively then 'and/or' is inconsistent. 'And/or' is a logical monstrosity:

"In a Wisconsin Supreme Court opinion from 1935, Justice Fowler referred to it as "that befuddling, nameless thing, that Janus-faced verbal monstrosity, neither word nor phrase, the child of a brain of someone too lazy or too dull to know what he did mean." The Kentucky Supreme Court has said it was a "much-condemned conjunctive-disjunctive crutch of sloppy thinkers." Finally, the Florida Supreme Court has held that use of and/or [in a contract] results in a nullity, stating

. . . we take our position with that distinguished company of lawyers who have condemned its use. It is one of those inexcusable barbarisms which were sired by indolence and damned by indifference, and has no more place in legal terminology than the vernacular of Uncle Remus has in Holy Writ. I am unable to divine how such senseless jargon becomes current. The coiner of it certainly had no appreciation for terse and concise law English."

One would think with PADI's money they could hire a better writer. And I would think that given the amount of money needed to be spent to meet all the conditions for PADI MSD PADI would just toss in the card for free.

MT

 

[boulderjohn]

and the books written at a grade 5 or 6 reading level

The last person I certified was in the 4th grade. You can get certified at age 10, which was his age. Maybe that's why the materials were written at the grade 5 or 6 reading level.

 

[modustollens]

The last person I certified was in the 4th grade. You can get certified at age 10, which was his age. Maybe that's why the materials were written at the grade 5 or 6 reading level.

I was too young to drive to the dive shop myself when I took my course; so I take your point. Perhaps they should write different books for different ages - more information and complexity for those who wish it?

Whatever the reason, the last course book I bought I found thin and lacking - that's how I found this website - looking more information.
MT