Padi Master scuba diver

[TSandM]

Really? We haven't had any problems with the Fundies card for Nitrox anywhere.

modustollens, the problem with and/or is that the inclusive nature of "or" has been forgotten, and it is viewed as purely disjunctive.

Personally, I would love a thread where all the participants were like modustollens, boulderjohn, and Doc Vikingo. Articulate, thoughtful, organized, and with references.

Modustollens, you will prefer the GUE educational material to some extent -- it is written for adults. But it is horribly proofread and edited.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

However, many dive operations require AOW for deep dives below 60' and Fundies won't qualify you for this (GUE-F max depth is 60'). Many dive operations also need to see a nitrox card before diving nitrox, and won't accept a Fundies card for this even though all Fundies training dives are 32%.

In regards to AOW and Fundamentals, I agree. I have seen it happen while on trips to Palau. Some divers were placed on different boats, and not allowed to do some of the dives if they didn't have an Advanced rating. This was at the discretion of the Dive Guide/Instructor, as it should be.

I recommend to everyone around here, to take the Advanced course. It is certainly a card worth having, as many boat operations will require it. Many people, myself included, don't feel the course contains enough content....but there is still much value to be had in taking it.

The Advanced class is a great launching off point for whatever else you might want to do.
Fundamentals is too, but the both have different goals.

Fundamentals isn't really a certification in the same way the other courses are. Everyone should take the Advanced class in my opinion.

-Mitch

 

[cbairdjr]

Which edition AID manual is that?

PADI have only ever issued recommended limits, up to 40m/130ft, on which they are definite about being the max limit for recreational divers.

PADI Adventures In Diving Manual 2005, PG67.

 

[cbairdjr]

One would think with PADI's money they could hire a better writer. And I would think that given the amount of money needed to be spent to meet all the conditions for PADI MSD PADI would just toss in the card for free.

I believe they used to give the card for free back in the 80's if you met the requirements - someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[scjoe]

To be honest, I think (and this is speculation) that the agency feels trapped by a decision made decades ago. Even in the 1990s, when I got my AOW, they were calling it Adventures in Diving, and although the card says "Advanced," that term was minimized. I think they regret using that term then, but after I don't know how many millions of AOW cards issued, and with just about every other agency also issuing cards with that name, it's tough to make a change.

My recollection is different in that when PADI first came out with the term "Advanced Open Water" I think it was purely a marketing ploy. NAUI was just Open Water II. Which designation sounds more impressive? I see the MSD as a continuation of the same marketing approach of trying to make something sound more impressive than it is. I suspect PADI does feel trapped by the Advanced designation, but only because the rest of the industry followed suit and they've all had to acknowledge that Advanced divers aren't very advanced.

 

[nimoh]

Really? We haven't had any problems with the Fundies card for Nitrox anywhere.

modustollens, the problem with and/or is that the inclusive nature of "or" has been forgotten, and it is viewed as purely disjunctive.

Personally, I would love a thread where all the participants were like modustollens, boulderjohn, and Doc Vikingo. Articulate, thoughtful, organized, and with references.

Modustollens, you will prefer the GUE educational material to some extent -- it is written for adults. But it is horribly proofread and edited.

thanks for calling me on that...I was speaking out of my ass a bit. Since I don't have my GUE-F card yet, I haven't tried to use it to get Nitrox. I'll retract my Nitrox comment, but I think the deep diving below 60' still holds

 

[Tortuga68]

'And' means both are necessary while 'or' means one is sufficient

Depends on the context.

Personally I would prefer a doctor to tell me I had cancer or a cough than cancer and a cough.

 

[TomZ]

There seems to be a good number of contributors to this post (myself included) who believe the words "Master" Scuba Diver and "Advanced" Open Water Diver may convey a meaning that's inconsistent with the actual abilities of the divers.

IMO those who most likely would be confused or misled, would be less experienced divers, or the general public. As a community are we serving those segments (and thus ourselves as divers) by defending ambiguous titles? Is any positive purpose served by taking an elitist attitude (again IMHO) concerning semantics?

Gong waaaay back to high school debate class, isn't the first rule of argument, or in fact writing, to know your target audience? Shouldn't we be considering the consumer of the information? Meh, maybe flexing intellectual muscles on the internet is more important.

 

[Simon-]

Jeez, 25 pages of cirlces

 

[Crass3000]

thanks for calling me on that...I was speaking out of my ass a bit. Since I don't have my GUE-F card yet, I haven't tried to use it to get Nitrox. I'll retract my Nitrox comment, but I think the deep diving below 60' still holds

Is there anywhere in MN or the surrounding states that even offers GUE classes? I looked and didn't see any. If there was, would there be a decent benefit (to fit the price) to takings the class after doing OW, AOW, Night, deep, nitrox, navigation, wreck, and rescue (all PADI)?