Another BP/W Thread...

[Zef]

I have no such dive plan. Just thinking of what if situation. It could happen when a diver get hypoxia, heart attack or panic & shot up to the surface, etc.

Panic, yes a diver tends to dart to the surface...but once on the surface IF they inflate their BC/wing they will tend regain composure and manage their buoyancy on the surface...IF they don't manage their buoyancy on the surface then they will not have to worry about the back inflate nature of a wing forcing them face down.

If the situation is hypoxia or heart attach underwater, I don't think back inflate will be an issue as getting to the surface is the real issue, if you become unconscious at depth your dive partner or whomever rescues/recovers you will take care of you being face up at the surface.

Your scenarios are good examples in theory but I don't think they marry up well with real life situations.

-Z

 

[Lorenzoid]

My advice is to try a BP/W before buying just so you know what it's like to use one.

It took me quite a few dives before I warmed to the BP/W. The first few dives, I struggled and did not like it as much as the more traditional jacket and back-inflate BCs I had been using. But eventually, (with the help of an instructor to get me correctly weighted) I saw the light, and now it feels as comfortable as could be, and I can't imagine diving in anything else. So, my advice to people who are accustomed to a more traditional BC is to give the BP/W a chance--try to do more than just a couple of dives in a BP/W before deciding whether you like it.

 

[ams511]

My whole point is that the discussion on scubaboard is anything but diverse, and not representative of the General diving population.

The general diving population is generally clueless. I don't mean this as a slam, but their information comes from a dive shop, and many shops place their own bottom line over what is best for a diver. So they are getting biased information. A dive shop is not going to recommend a Perdix if they do not sell it. The will recommend something they sell which is not as good and maybe even more expensive. There are many threads on SB about this.

You can disagree that a BP/W is a better choice than a BC, and you may be right. It seems recently that dive manufacturers have upped their game in the BC department. However, there is still the issue of price. The Hydros Pro that @stuartv is fond of retails for $880 (I am not sure of the street price), I can buy a VDH or DGX setup for $300. If I gain or lose weight (trying to lose now) I can adjust the webbing or buy new webbing for $15, not buy a new BC. I can add pockets if I want or change the harness, etc. Things you cannot do with most BCs.

 

[stuartv]

I think a related issue is that here on SB I think it is very common for some people to make recommendations about stuff where they do not acknowledge that a significant part of their recommendation is actually based on their personal finances.

E.g. many will recommend a BP/W as being the best. But, in reality, what they mean is that is very good and also the best value - and it is that "value" judgment which is totally subjective. Some people have plenty of money. Others are on a super tight budget. Something that is "best" because of the value may be totally NOT the "best" for someone else with a lot bigger budget.

My Hydros is my favorite single tank BCD. Period. But, it's not what I would buy if I were paying MSRP - because it is not the best value (to me - by a long shot) for a single tank BCD. I think lots of people post that BP/W is best and leave out "because it is the best value, based on my personal budget and feelings."

 

[Lorenzoid]

Good point, Stuart. I think some frugal BP/W fans who switched over from "expensive" BCs have a tendency to get indignant because they look back at their first purchase and feel they were "ripped off" by the LDS that sold them an expensive BC. They now zealously advocate BP/Ws to others because, whether consciously or subconsciously, they want revenge on those who sell stuff that's "too expensive." But to some people, two or three hundred dollars in cost of one BC over another is not a big deal.

 

[ams511]

I think lots of people post that BP/W is best and leave out "because it is the best value, based on my personal budget and feelings."

I think another reason people recommend BP/W is that they came from older BCs that were designed to look cool rather than be useful in the water. It seems the new crop of BCs may be better.

 

[ams511]

Good point, Stuart. I think some frugal BP/W fans who switched over from "expensive" BCs have a tendency to get indignant because they look back at their first purchase and feel they were "ripped off" by the LDS that sold them an expensive BC. They now zealously advocate BP/Ws to others because, whether consciously or subconsciously, they want revenge on those who sell stuff that's "too expensive." But to some people, two or three hundred dollars in cost of one BC over another is not a big deal.

My first BC was a Beuchat Master Lift (old grey version) I bought at a tent sale from Diver's Supply in Jax for $100 or so in 1993. My second BC was a Seatec Manta given to me by a friend that gave up diving. So I really did not have a lot of money tied up in BCs. I replaced them with a Halcyon Eclipse 30, which is not an inexpensive item.

The main problem was fit. The Seatec (the better of the two) was too tight, while the Beuchat was too loose. When I kicked the tank would wobble back and forth. The fit and stability of the Halcyon was a revelation as well as the reduction in drag. Also I liked moving the weight off the belt, as I am a cork.

 

[uncfnp]

I think a related issue is that here on SB I think it is very common for some people to make recommendations about stuff where they do not acknowledge that a significant part of their recommendation is actually based on their personal finances.

E.g. many will recommend a BP/W as being the best. But, in reality, what they mean is that is very good and also the best value - and it is that "value" judgment which is totally subjective. Some people have plenty of money. Others are on a super tight budget. Something that is "best" because of the value may be totally NOT the "best" for someone else with a lot bigger budget.

My Hydros is my favorite single tank BCD. Period. But, it's not what I would buy if I were paying MSRP - because it is not the best value (to me - by a long shot) for a single tank BCD. I think lots of people post that BP/W is best and leave out "because it is the best value, based on my personal budget and feelings."

Maybe to some extent but I think Petrel/Perdix somewhat defeats this idea. It is not by any means frugal and you can certainly dive much cheaper. But it is a very popular computer choice and not just on SB.

To me I think it is more, as you say, value for the money. If a higher priced item gives you more useful features or functions then I think price as part of the recommendation plays a much lesser roll. If it is just added cost with very little real gain, then yes, it is likely not to be a darling on SB. And that is as it should be.

 

[MichaelMc]

To me, a BP/W preserves choice, once we move past jacket BCs and how their snugness changes with inflation. If I accept that plate, wing, and webbing works as a BC for me, there is a whole lot of add/subtract mix and match possible.

Many companies make plates, wings, and components that thread onto 2" shoulder and waist straps. Price aside, the cost to making changes is doing the threading, but it need not be a long one piece harness if you don't want it to be.

A new diver just has to get the big choices mostly right: 40/30/20 lb. wing, steel/aluminum plate, uber-quality/quality/budget. They can pick separately if they want, assuming wing and plate follow the standard pattern. All the little stuff can easily change: padded/unpadded straps, D rings, storage, trim, and dumpable integrated weight pockets, and extra lead attached to the plate. If something isn't just right for them, they can change just that, not search for it integrated with all the rest. That isn't the case for an integrated BC.

A longer term BP/W diver can tailor that one BC to them. Or, if they dive in many conditions, collect a parts/components bin that gives them many BCs for the closet and mental clutter space of only a few BCs.

The apparent body fit of the Hydros Pro BC or Freedom plate is tempting. But the Hydros Pro doesn't give the wing/plate flexibility of the BP/W. And the Freedom plate is one of many BP/W plate options .... But, as an extreme example of choice, I'm mildly obsessed with recreational trim, so I move weights and small weight pockets around my rig and weight belt, trying to put my initial 3D center of mass where I want, while preserving some on-body lead. The Freedom plate offers less attachment real estate higher up. Once I get more dialed, the body smooth fit of the Freedom plate is on the list; but I might just go side mount (new harness/wing) or baby twins (new wing). Most integrated BCs don't offer this level of flexibility to what sits in my closet or car.

Edited: to mention weight belt and dumpable BP/W integrated weight pockets.

 

[Bob DBF]

To me a BP/W preserves choice, once we move past jacket BCs and how their snugness changes with inflation

Although the predominant BC now is the poodle jacket with the inflatable waist air cell and cummerbund, there was, and since I haven't see the new ScubaPro Classic so there may be at least one made now, the stab jacket style which did not wrap itself around and get snug, unless it was a bit small, which is why it came with a crotch strap. I don't know which type the back inflate BC's would fall under, possibly both, dependant on design.

I just went for the BP/W to get rid of the poodle jacket squeeze. I didn't consider the Back inflates due to my budget. I've used a number of different BC's over the decades and it is my opinion that a skilled diver can make any rig look good.


Bob