Another BP/W Thread...

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
I just went for the BP/W to get rid of the poodle jacket squeeze. I didn't consider the Back inflates due to my budget. I've used a number of different BC's over the decades and it is my opinion that a skilled diver can make any rig look good.

When I was a new diver, I kind of liked the "poodle jacket squeeze"--reassuring, comforting, like a life jacket. As I gained confidence, that became less important, with the pendulum eventually swinging entirely the other way for me to the point where I now embrace the concept of minimalism: the least amount of gear on/attached to me, the smallest wing, no weight belt (if feasible), the most streamlined, etc., that will do the job for the particular dive.

 

[Dan]

When I was a new diver, I kind of liked the "poodle jacket squeeze"--reassuring, comforting, like a life jacket. As I gained confidence, that became less important, with the pendulum eventually swinging entirely the other way for me to the point where I now embrace the concept of minimalism: the least amount of gear on/attached to me, the smallest wing, no weight belt (if feasible), the most streamlined, etc., that will do the job for the particular dive.

I’m still in that new diver phase of “liking the poodle jacket squeeze” as a feedback that my BCD is working fine and something else is affecting me from not being able to ascent, like that dang down current in Crystal Bay, Bali, Indonesia. Finning vigorously upward was a futile effort. I ended up doing “rock climbing” underwater hand-over-hand on the wall.

Having integrated weight pouch BCD also replaces the weight belt. I like the idea of being able to dump the weights quickly if I were to fail to fin out from the blue water to the wall during the down current. How do you dump the weight off the BP/W, if you don’t use weight belt?

 

[mmerriman]

I’m still in that new diver phase of “liking the poodle jacket squeeze” as a feedback that my BCD is working fine and something else is affecting me from not being able to ascent, like that dang down current in Crystal Bay, Bali, Indonesia. Finning vigorously upward was a futile effort. I ended up doing “rock climbing” underwater hand-over-hand on the wall.

Having integrated weight pouch BCD also replaces the weight belt. I like the idea of being able to dumb the weights quickly if I were to fail to fin out from the blue water to the wall during the down current. How do you dumb the weight off the BP/W, if you don’t use weight belt?

OMS Ballast System Pair (6.8 kg - 15 lb - each side)

 

[Lorenzoid]

... How do you dumb the weight off the BP/W, if you don’t use weight belt?

There's the kind of dumpable ballast system Mike linked to, and then there's the concept of having just enough ballast to be able to dive properly without being unable to swim up to the surface even if your BC completely fails to provide buoyancy. I know you carry a lot of safety gear, such as a PLB, so your ballast and buoyancy needs may have to take that into account.

 

[stuartv]

@Dan_T If you are diving a single AL80, you are carrying 6 # of gas when it's full.

If you are weighted properly (no matter what accessories you are carrying), you will be neutral (at or near the surface) with an empty tank, at the end of your dive. That means you will start your dive approximately 6 # negative (at or near the surface).

When you descend to max depth, your wetsuit will compress and you will become even more negative. If you're diving dry, you shouldn't become any more negative - unless your suit somehow suddenly loses all its lift*.

If your BCD air cell were to completely lose ALL lift capability, you would be, at most, negative by 6# plus however much buoyancy you lose from wetsuit compression. Unless you are diving a really thick wetsuit that compresses a lot at depth, you should be able to swim up from your max depth, even when your tank is full, without needing to dump any weights.

If you get to the surface and can't get positive and you don't have weights to dump, you can ditch your whole rig. Losing your rig is better than losing your life (from drowning). If you ARE diving a thick wetsuit and going deep where it will compress a lot, then yeah, you might really need a weight belt you can drop. Maybe.

They key is what @Lorenzoid said: Carrying the right amount of ballast. If you overweight yourself, then you might not be able to swim up from depth if your BCD totally fails. In that case, you would want ditchable weight.

*My analysis is not accounting for the possibility of losing your BCD lift AND your drysuit lift at the same time. That is a possibility too remote to worry about (to me, anyway).

 

[shurite7]

This situation brings me to a question about floating on the surface, which sometimes I do while waiting for skiff to pick us up. With jacket BCD, I can just put a bit of air in BCD and float vertically, may be even do a short power napping, without finning. Can I do that with BP/W?

Another thought comes to mind, if I were to pass out at the surface, would the back inflate force my face down to the water & drown?

Several of us took a variety of BCDs out to the lake and found all of them, with the exception of one, tended to push the diver's face into the water when fully inflated at the surface. The only one that didn't was the non-integrated BC. We intentionally inflated them all the way because the vast majority of divers (this comes from my observation of divers whether diving in the tropics or cold water) inflate their BC all the way when they reach the surface. This is one of the reason's the BCD is not approved as a flotation device for boaters.

With all that being stated an experienced thinking diver will figure out how to use the BCD, regardless of type, and float comfortable at the surface rather than depending on a piece of equipment to do the work for them.

One of the weaknesses to dive training, for newbies, is the vast majority of people are introduced to one BCD and are not given the chance to try out other types.

 

[Lorenzoid]

@shurite7 and @Dan_T , another way I like to float on the surface with a BP/W is on my back. I realize that it's a good idea to keep an eye out for the boat, but since Dan mentioned "power napping," I would say yes, it can be done very easily with a BP/W--on your back, floating like a sea otter.

 

[Bob DBF]

When I was a new diver, I kind of liked the "poodle jacket squeeze"--reassuring, comforting, like a life jacket

That might be the difference in attitude for the choice in BC. I started without a BC so no squeeze. The emergency training then escalated to ditching gear and swimming home, so having something restricting around me is not reassuring. It's just a state of mind, but it has an effect.

My wife, when my old BC was getting ratty, bought me a poodle jacket for my birthday. The squeeze was annoying, and I had to put on my own crotch strap because I didn't like the cummerbund so tight. I used it several years, with the air 2 clone that came with it, and since I'm not dead, it was just another learning experience.

When I had the cash I tried the BP/W and liked it. The good news is that if I didn't like it, I would get a better return than I would have with the jacket. Actually, I passed on the jacket and second for a case of beer, I'd want more for the new rig although it's now older than the jacket was then.

The bottom line is what you like to dive. No rig is intrinsically better or worse, it depends on the dive and what you are comfortable with. In the not too distant past divers used doubles on a jacket for their deco dives.

A buddy switched to a BP/W and installed his Air2. He likes it and it works fine, who am I to make his decision.


Bob

 

[Chilly_Diver]

The bottom line is what you like to dive. No rig is intrinsically better or worse, it depends on the dive and what you are comfortable with. In the not too distant past divers used doubles on a jacket for their deco dives.

A buddy switched to a BP/W and installed his Air2. He likes it and it works fine, who am I to make his decision.


Bob

This ^ 100%.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

That might be the difference in attitude for the choice in BC. I started without a BC so no squeeze. The emergency training then escalated to ditching gear and swimming home, so having something restricting around me is not reassuring. It's just a state of mind, but it has an effect.

My wife, when my old BC was getting ratty, bought me a poodle jacket for my birthday. The squeeze was annoying, and I had to put on my own crotch strap because I didn't like the cummerbund so tight. I used it several years, with the air 2 clone that came with it, and since I'm not dead, it was just another learning experience.

When I had the cash I tried the BP/W and liked it. The good news is that if I didn't like it, I would get a better return than I would have with the jacket. Actually, I passed on the jacket and second for a case of beer, I'd want more for the new rig although it's now older than the jacket was then.

The bottom line is what you like to dive. No rig is intrinsically better or worse, it depends on the dive and what you are comfortable with. In the not too distant past divers used doubles on a jacket for their deco dives.

A buddy switched to a BP/W and installed his Air2. He likes it and it works fine, who am I to make his decision.


Bob

My big “Epiphany” was when I was diving at South Fisk Mill Cove several years back. As you might know there can be a hell of a rip there, plus the treacherous bar reef right at the entrance to the little lagoon.
We were coming in, and after a brutal struggle against the current to make any headway, I was exhausted by the time I reached the ominous entrance to the lagoon. I was on my back finning vigorously and my tank valve got wrapped up in feather boa kelp holding me right over the rock shelf that makes up the treacherous entrance. I got held under as 4’ waves were pouring over me. I’m in distress, mask flooded and half ripped off, my reg on a long hose got ensnared behind my head and ripped out of my mouth. I’m upside down looking up thinking this is how it’s going to end. Just then a much bigger roller came through and with great force ripped me loose from the ensnaring feather boa and sent me ass over teakettle into the shallow cove.
At that moment I had an awakening that more gear is actually more dangerous. I was configured with long hoses wrapped everywhere, drysuit, a big back inflate Seaquest wannabe tech style BC with integrated weights, pony bottle clipped on, etc. basically wearing a whole dive shop.
It was a confining miserable set up to say the least.
After that, I actually took a few months off from diving, not because I was traumatized by the incident, but because I needed time to figure out how completely rethink and streamline my gear better for North Coast diving. This played a big part in the development of the Freedom Plate. It was born in large part due to this incident and the name actually was derived from me being freed from all the encumbering gear.
Less is much more, and IMO much safer.
I dive so stripped down now that people look at me from the front and wonder where my gear is. It almost looks like I’m freediving.
Less gear and more skill is better than less skill and more gear to cover for it.