Are you a Dive Hypocrite?

[DaleC]

and somewhat misleading.

Elderly patients are not usually the most costly patients (often sub acute care recipients) and healthy people work longer and contribute more in taxes and pension plans to offset their inevitable health care costs.
Morbidly obese people have dramatically shorter work spans, contribute less financially to their own care costs and often wind up in acute care facilities for sub/non acute reasons that become "acute" because of their obesity.

Having said that I try to have compassion for people who struggle with problems, even if it may be due to the own doing. Often the reasons are not as clear cut as they seem and in the end, it is still a human being suffering.

 

[mikemill]

I find the notion that fixing obesity is as simple as diet + exercise about as honest as saying that fixing anorexia is as simple as eating more. Both totally ignore the root problems.

I'm way over weight, no doubt about it. 10 years ago I was about 2/3 of my current weight (which at the time was a good weight). In those 10 years a lot has happened and I need to undo. Considering everything I deal with taking the time to make those changes is not that easy. What I need (truly) is some assistance in laying down a path to do so. But attitudes towards obese people make it hard to do so.

 

[Tigerman]

Diving is generally a safe sport, it does however possess an element of risk. As time goes by, many of us seek further training and start to dive deeper, go solo, venture into wrecks & caves and use CCR. Some use air exclusively, while others use mixed-gas. Some get into decompression diving, while others refrain from doing so.

Should certain diving activities be prohibited? I point this out because of the lack of acceptance by some individuals surrounding the use of deep air. There's no doubt about it, that using deep air increases the diver's level of risk. So does solo diving, penetrating caves or wrecks, the list goes on. Why should one particular brand of risk be looked down upon, while another is accepted?

To what extent do you believe in personal freedom? What level of risk do you feel that a diver can assume? What do you think?

When I start endangering anybody but myself (and my buddy who made an informed choice to come with me), you can prohibit it all you want. Some risks are in my book not safe (deep air being one of them - After a certain ppo2) and I wont do it or encourage anyone else to do it. If you wanna do it however, its your choice. If the activity you are pursuing means its too risky for rescue personell to get you out (dead or alive), I think they shouldnt be obligated to do so.

 

[Sas]

I'm way over weight, no doubt about it. 10 years ago I was about 2/3 of my current weight (which at the time was a good weight). In those 10 years a lot has happened and I need to undo. Considering everything I deal with taking the time to make those changes is not that easy. What I need (truly) is some assistance in laying down a path to do so. But attitudes towards obese people make it hard to do so.

There are doctors, and nutritionists that can help people formulate plans for losing (or gaining) weight and getting healthier. And a number of PHIers have programs that they partially fund. Might be worth looking into.

 

[DaleC]

And someone to go through it with you.
Most problems are easier to cope with when you have a freind/partner to share the experience with. Probably one of the harder aspects is social isolation and thinking you are the only one having the sort of troubles you have.
Many of us (particularily the older guys) have a lot of trouble keeping the weight down once the metabolism switches to geezer mode (and in my case the appetite remains stuck in athlete mode). I find it hard to take ballerina portions seriously.

 

[Sas]

And someone to go through it with you.
Most problems are easier to cope with when you have a freind/partner to share the experience with. Probably one of the harder aspects is social isolation and thinking you are the only one having the sort of troubles you have.
Many of us (particularily the older guys) have a lot of trouble keeping the weight down once the metabolism switches to geezer mode (and in my case the appetite remains stuck in athlete mode). I find it hard to take ballerina portions seriously.

I have found the best thing too, to record everything you eat and the exercise you do (and studies show that people with food diaries do better at losing weight). There are plenty of free sites and applications online that allow this. I have an iPhone app personally with a very extensive DB of foods and what they have in them as well as calorie content so it is rare that I have to enter in a lot of details about what I am eating. And it also has a way to add exercise too. I mean, it takes effort and it is not very easy to lose weight but it is possible. And there is plenty of good advice around on the internet about healthy foods too.

 

[vladimir]

I find the notion that fixing obesity is as simple as diet + exercise about as honest as saying that fixing anorexia is as simple as eating more. Both totally ignore the root problems.

I'm way over weight, no doubt about it. 10 years ago I was about 2/3 of my current weight (which at the time was a good weight). In those 10 years a lot has happened and I need to undo. Considering everything I deal with taking the time to make those changes is not that easy. What I need (truly) is some assistance in laying down a path to do so. But attitudes towards obese people make it hard to do so.

One inescapable fact in any discussion on obesity is that it was much less prevalent a generation ago than it is now. So when people posit genetic explanations, for example (and I realize you haven't), I have to ask, how has the human genome changed in 20 or 30 years? It's easy to see things that have changed, however: the availability of fast food and our television-watching habits are the two that jump out at me. If you're fat, just give up television--one thing, cold turkey. You won't miss it a bit, I bet, and I also bet you'll start to see some progress losing weight. Then change something else--walk to and from work, maybe. Then swear off french fries--nothing else, just french fries. The little things will add up.

 

[drrich2]

Here's a thought...if fat people are 'wrong' for not undergoing whatever lifestyle distortions are necessary to get into the normal weight range because 'normal' weight people are healthier and cost less, consider this...

A healthy weight person may be less healthy and more costly than a highly motivated athletic person who is highly engaged in physical fitness.

Now, why is the fat guy expected to be ashamed of his condition, and the normal weight person is not? What is 'the bar' set so conveniently for the normal weight people?

Why is it 'good enough' just to be categorized as non-obese? Who's to say if you don't get up at 5 a.m. and run a couple of miles before work and do strength training 3 times/week that you aren't doing your part to stay fit, be productive and keep health care costs down?

For that matter, a figure I've heard of the U.S. population is that 1/3'rd are overweight and another 1/3'rd are obese, so by today's standards, 'normal weight' is somewhat debatable itself.

Richard.

P.S.: When I was a kid, I often heard people say of the U.S. 'It's a free country,' in regards to personal choices. I seldom hear that anymore. I suppose it doesn't seem like one to people...

 

[Sas]

Here's a thought...if fat people are 'wrong' for not undergoing whatever lifestyle distortions are necessary to get into the normal weight range because 'normal' weight people are healthier and cost less, consider this...

A healthy weight person may be less healthy and more costly than a highly motivated athletic person who is highly engaged in physical fitness.

Now, why is the fat guy expected to be ashamed of his condition, and the normal weight person is not? What is 'the bar' set so conveniently for the normal weight people?

Why is it 'good enough' just to be categorized as non-obese? Who's to say if you don't get up at 5 a.m. and run a couple of miles before work and do strength training 3 times/week that you aren't doing your part to stay fit, be productive and keep health care costs down?

For that matter, a figure I've heard of the U.S. population is that 1/3'rd are overweight and another 1/3'rd are obese, so by today's standards, 'normal weight' is somewhat debatable itself.

Richard.

P.S.: When I was a kid, I often heard people say of the U.S. 'It's a free country,' in regards to personal choices. I seldom hear that anymore. I suppose it doesn't seem like one to people...

I personally see no problem with whatever weight people want to be and I have no problem with my taxes going to medical care of anyone regardless of their weight, whether they smoke or do risky sports or whatever.

I just don't like when people use things like genetics or "society" as an excuse for their weight (or the fact they smoke, or drink too much, or do drugs) and act like it is beyond their control.

 

[DaleC]

I have found the best thing too, to record everything you eat and the exercise you do (and studies show that people with food diaries do better at losing weight). There are plenty of free sites and applications online that allow this. I have an iPhone app personally with a very extensive DB of foods and what they have in them as well as calorie content so it is rare that I have to enter in a lot of details about what I am eating. And it also has a way to add exercise too. I mean, it takes effort and it is not very easy to lose weight but it is possible. And there is plenty of good advice around on the internet about healthy foods too.

Interesting Sas, you are describing characteristics of an anorexic personality being used to combat obesity (preoccupation with calorie counting). For me the problem is somewhat compounded by the fact that I am a vegetarian (I know, we're all supposed to be tall and skinny???) and working on the road. The current trend for weight loss has people eliminating carbs and eating proteins but I can't really go that route. "On the road" food also limits my choices (with some exceptions) so I usually wind up making a lunch the night before or stopping at green grocers. Another aspect I have discovered though is that vegetables and fruits don't seem to feel filling for long and I usually wind up resorting to a carb fix (my downfall!). There are some tricks like eating nuts, eggs, cheese and other foods that take longer to break down over longer periods of time but that again, requires a bit of preplanning.
I also do cardio workouts 3-4 times a week but I can tell you, the recovery time is way more than when I was a younger man. I can still do the stuff but I feel it the next day.. and the next.. and the next.
Signing off for the night now.