Are you a Dive Hypocrite?

[Sas]

Interesting Sas, you are describing characteristics of an anorexic personality being used to combat obesity preoccupation calorie counting).

It works though. Keeping A Food Diary Doubles Diet Weight Loss, Study Suggests You have to have some idea of what is going into your body or you won't know what is causing the weight gain. Most people have no idea about the calories in the foods they eat, the fat, salt content and so on. I am not sure what it is like in other countries but here most foods have nutritional information on them like this: http://www.ascendsport.com/Upload/Image/Nutrition Information_Ascend Bars(2).jpg which helps a lot. Though now there is information online to help with this too. Cuts down the time dramatically to about a few minutes a day recording food so it doesn't have to be a 'preoccupation'.

I can't think of an easier way to monitor eating habits unless you outsource it to someone else and it is easier to cheat then...

For me the problem is somewhat compounded by the fact that I am a vegetarian (I know, we're all supposed to be tall and skinny???) and working on the road. The current trend for weight loss has people eliminating carbs and eating proteins but I can't really go that route.

Ignore the current trend. It doesn't matter what you choose as far as carbs and proteins go, you need to reduce your calorie intake (google around and you will see what I mean) or rather expend more energy than you eat so up your exercise level. There are pros and cons of both methods but balance is preferable.

"On the road" food also limits my choices (with some exceptions) so I usually wind up making a lunch the night before or stopping at green grocers. Another aspect I have discovered though is that vegetables and fruits don't seem to feel filling for long and I usually wind up resorting to a carb fix (my downfall!). There are some tricks like eating nuts, eggs, cheese and other foods that take longer to break down over longer periods of time but that again, requires a bit of preplanning.
I also do cardio workouts 3-4 times a week but I can tell you, the recovery time is way more than when I was a younger man. I can still do the stuff but I feel it the next day.

Yea it's basically about preplanning. Preplanning is hard and I get lax a lot too. But yea, can't really think of anything easier to suggest!

 

[Sas]

I find the notion that fixing obesity is as simple as diet + exercise about as honest as saying that fixing anorexia is as simple as eating more. Both totally ignore the root problems.

Actually on this, the first step one should take when treating anorexia is to restore normal eating habits actually and get the person to gain more weight. When one is starved rationality goes out the window. Then psychological treatment if necessary.

Obesity is treated in a similiar way - person is given healthy eating and exercise plan, sometimes weight loss drugs. This can be coupled with psychological help also. Treating root problem is not mutually exclusive with treating the symptoms...

 

[DCBC]

When I start endangering anybody but myself (and my buddy who made an informed choice to come with me), you can prohibit it all you want. Some risks are in my book not safe (deep air being one of them - After a certain ppo2) and I wont do it or encourage anyone else to do it. If you wanna do it however, its your choice. If the activity you are pursuing means its too risky for rescue personell to get you out (dead or alive), I think they shouldnt be obligated to do so.

Thanks Tigerman. I suppose it's similar to diving solo, caves, wrecks, ice, or decompression (regardless of mixture). They all have increased risk. In case of an accident, rescue people may be asked to recover the body. This would place them at added risk; so I agree with you that they shouldn't be obligated to recover the victim.

 

[mikemill]

One inescapable fact in any discussion on obesity is that it was much less prevalent a generation ago than it is now. So when people posit genetic explanations, for example (and I realize you haven't), I have to ask, how has the human genome changed in 20 or 30 years? It's easy to see things that have changed, however: the availability of fast food and our television-watching habits are the two that jump out at me. If you're fat, just give up television--one thing, cold turkey. You won't miss it a bit, I bet, and I also bet you'll start to see some progress losing weight. Then change something else--walk to and from work, maybe. Then swear off french fries--nothing else, just french fries. The little things will add up.

Well if you look in the last generations or two we've moved from a work force mainly of manual laborers and factory workers to a work force with a lot more office workers (and yes the explosion of fast food). This contributes to other problems also. When I get home at the end of the day I'm not physically tired, I'm mentally tired. I've had periods of my life where the day ended physically tired and mentally tired and I have to say the physically tired days were easier to recover from. So saying to turn off the TV isn't going to do anything, I'd just spend that time doing something else like reading. Walking to work: For my area I live close to where I work which is 2.5 miles. Given an average walking pace of 2-3 MPH it'd take me 50 minutes to an hour 15 minutes. Given that it takes me 5 minutes to drive that is a lose of 1 hour 30 minutes to 2 hours 20 minutes every day. Lastly, I'm willing to change my diet but am unwilling to "give up" or "swear off" something completely. Counting calories, logging everything I eat or do, not eating enjoyable foods, etc is not how I want to live my life. Learning to make better food choices while still enjoying the food is what I want.

Here's a thought...if fat people are 'wrong' for not undergoing whatever lifestyle distortions are necessary to get into the normal weight range because 'normal' weight people are healthier and cost less, consider this...

A healthy weight person may be less healthy and more costly than a highly motivated athletic person who is highly engaged in physical fitness.

Now, why is the fat guy expected to be ashamed of his condition, and the normal weight person is not? What is 'the bar' set so conveniently for the normal weight people?

Why is it 'good enough' just to be categorized as non-obese? Who's to say if you don't get up at 5 a.m. and run a couple of miles before work and do strength training 3 times/week that you aren't doing your part to stay fit, be productive and keep health care costs down?

For that matter, a figure I've heard of the U.S. population is that 1/3'rd are overweight and another 1/3'rd are obese, so by today's standards, 'normal weight' is somewhat debatable itself.

Richard.

P.S.: When I was a kid, I often heard people say of the U.S. 'It's a free country,' in regards to personal choices. I seldom hear that anymore. I suppose it doesn't seem like one to people...

The funny thing is that 500 years ago it was the skinny people that were trying to get fatter

 

[Blackwood]

Sorry Sas ... I love ya, but I gotta call BS on that one.
Got about 50 years of practice to say you're wrong. There's a lot more to it than simply willpower.
You need further education on this topic ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm not sure I agree.

How, for example, do stomach stapling, lap bands, etc. work?

My understanding is that by shrinking your stomach, they make it uncomfortable to over-eat. Could not someone do the same thing by simply not over-eating?

 

[Blackwood]

Try reading what I actually typed. I CAN'T afford trimix for a 100' dive. I'm doing 10-15 100'ish dives per month. I pay $70/ K-Bottle of Helium (I think that's 225 or 250cu' of helium). You do the math.

I haven't dove over 200' this year. So lets say I do 4 200+ Dives per year at my current helium prices, that's a WHOLE lot more affordable than 120 Dives at 100' on Helium.

So, to reiterate... I cannot afford to pay for Trimix for a 100' dive. I'm doing 4 dives this week at 100+ feet. Can you imagine what that would cost me in helium? I'm sorry but that's way out of my budget and quite honestly according to my education, unnecessary.

I read and responded to exactly what you typed (and in fact quoted it in my reply).

What you meant is that you can't afford trimix for 10-15 dives per month, but that was in no way implied by "a 100' dive" mentioned in post 28.

Either way, I don't understand the notion of "affording" helium.

If I need Trimix to do a certain dive, I'll save up for it do shallower dives until I can pay for it. The cost of He is a non-issue.

If I don't need Trimix for a certain dive, the cost of He is also a non-issue.

 

[DCBC]

If I need Trimix to do a certain dive, I'll save up for it do shallower dives until I can pay for it. The cost of He is a non-issue.

If I don't need Trimix for a certain dive, the cost of He is also a non-issue.

That's not a problem for you, but if you choose not to dive past 50' on air (like PfcAJ), don't have many funds (or choose to spend your money differently) and want to dive often. You either don't go beyond 50', or learn to dive air to a greater depth in a safe manner. Other people dive for a living, so the cost may be more of an issue.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'm not sure I agree.

How, for example, do stomach stapling, lap bands, etc. work?

My understanding is that by shrinking your stomach, they make it uncomfortable to over-eat. Could not someone do the same thing by simply not over-eating?

Not if you still feel hungry all the time. Once you reach that point, you've got to treat eating like an addiction.

Your conclusion is somewhat correct ... but what it's doing is creating a feedback mechanism for behavior modification.

Behavior modification is what losing weight is really all about. Willpower works about as well for chronic overeaters as it does for smokers ... which is to say, it works for a small minority of people ... and even them it rarely works for the long-term.

There are a number of ways to achieve behavior modification ... not all of them will work for all people. And the same modifications won't work as effectively even for the same person over a period of years. I used to be able to drop 5 lbs almost at will by simply changing what I had to eat over the course of a week. Doesn't work for me anymore. Even as little as three years ago, stepping up my workout regimen would cause the pounds to practically fall off. I've stepped it up to about six hours a week in the gym over the past three months with negligible weight loss (my body looks thinner, but doesn't weigh much different).

It's easy to say fat people should just eat less ... the reality is somewhat more complicated than that ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If I need Trimix to do a certain dive, I'll save up for it do shallower dives until I can pay for it. The cost of He is a non-issue.

I'm pretty much on that same page. But what I won't do is assume that everybody is gonna get stupid at the same depth that I do.

My personal "I don't go below without helium" depth is about 120 fsw in our local, chronically dark and cold water. I might extend it a bit in warmer, more clear open water environments. In a cave, I don't like going below about 90 feet without helium.

There's more than simple physiology that determines how narcosis affects people ... which is why different people can feel and react differently at the same depth and gas. I can't get inside someone else's head and figure out where their "safe" limit happens to be. I know my own body pretty well, and know where I want to draw that line for me. But I hardly think it fair to attempt to apply those same limits to someone else.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Doc Harry]

Here in the USA, 90% of all Medicare and Medicaid dollars are spent treating complications of lifestyle choices (typically these are eating too much, smoking too much and drinking too much alcohol).

Maybe the chronically ill don;t life too long, but they suck up the health care dollars.

And typically 90% of health care dollars are spent treating people in the last week of their life.