Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[wetb4igetinthewater]

But I also think that to be certified to 60' as OW you should go to 60' at least once, and we know that almost never happens (at least at shops I know in Canada & U.S.).

Really? Every single ow diver I certify goes down to 40 feet on the first day, 60 feet on the next (okay, some only make it to 58 feet). That's disappointing if I'm the exception. I thought everyone did this.

 

[tursiops]

Really? Every single ow diver I certify goes down to 40 feet on the first day, 60 feet on the next (okay, some only make it to 58 feet). That's disappointing if I'm the exception. I thought everyone did this.

I'm sorry, but it's true, not everyone does this.

 

[Diver-Drex]

I would guess a majority of experienced divers would agree with you on the 100 feet. I believe I do. But I also think that to be certified to 60' as OW you should go to 60' at least once, and we know that almost never happens (at least at shops I know in Canada & U.S.). I also believe student drivers should be taken on a stretch of 65 mph busy Interstate (where most go 75 and half use directionals) before getting licensed to drive there, as opposed to city streets and parallel parking (think the last time I did that was, well, I can't recall). All these would be in a perfect world.

I’m surprised that more people don’t recognize how similar the two are - OW and a driver license. You get your license by taking a written test and driving in local conditions, whatever those are, and demonstrating competence in basic skills. You can drive anywhere you want after you get the license. A prudent new driver or parent wouldn’t condone immediately driving on a highway at rush hour or navigating Manhattan streets until you’ve gained more experience. And if it’s your kid you probably go with them during their first ventures on more challenging roads.
Noone points a finger at the instructor or motor vehicle department saying they are incompetent or have ‘no standards’. And noone points a finger at the new driver for still needing to gain experience and improve skills. Or for having a more seasoned ‘drive master’ ride shotgun. Yet with diving we do it constantly.
I learned to dive a while ago, it was more physically challenging and stressful than it is now. My cert dives were off an NJ dive boat. I was prepared to dive in those conditions. My wife got certified four years ago. Training was pleasant and her dives were in a quarry. She is prepared to dive in similar conditions and more than capable of diving warm, blue water locations. She is not prepared to dive in NJ. She knows that.
I am quite glad her training and cert dives were different than what I went through. She would have completed it but it would have been miserable and she likely would never have dived again.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I’m surprised that more people don’t recognize how similar the two are - OW and a driver license. You get your license by taking a written test and driving in local conditions, whatever those are, and demonstrating competence in basic skills. You can drive anywhere you want after you get the license. A prudent new driver or parent wouldn’t condone immediately driving on a highway at rush hour or navigating Manhattan streets until you’ve gained more experience. And if it’s your kid you probably go with them during their first ventures on more challenging roads.
Noone points a finger at the instructor or motor vehicle department saying they are incompetent or have ‘no standards’. And noone points a finger at the new driver for still needing to gain experience and improve skills. Or for having a more seasoned ‘drive master’ ride shotgun. Yet with diving we do it constantly.
I learned to dive a while ago, it was more physically challenging and stressful than it is now. My cert dives were off an NJ dive boat. I was prepared to dive in those conditions. My wife got certified four years ago. Training was pleasant and her dives were in a quarry. She is prepared to dive in similar conditions and more than capable of diving warm, blue water locations. She is not prepared to dive in NJ. She knows that.
I am quite glad her training and cert dives were different than what I went through. She would have completed it but it would have been miserable and she likely would never have dived again.

I think that we can extend the driver’s license analogy with different countries to training agencies. Countries like Finland and Germany require extensive training to receive a license while United States , not so much.

 

[Bob DBF]

Noone points a finger at the instructor or motor vehicle department saying they are incompetent or have ‘no standards

May be it is because the instructor does not hand out the license.


Bob

 

[Diver-Drex]

May be it is because the instructor does not hand out the license.


Bob

No, the DMV hands out the license. The instructor passes or fails the student driver and the DMV issues the license. Not sure how that differs from Scuba. The instructor determines if you pass or fail, notifies the agency and they give you the license.
A difference is that your instructor can be identified. At least with PADI, and I’m sure this is common to most agencies, if the instructor violates standards in the course of training there is a corrective mechanism. I don’t know how often this occurs but I am aware that it did with a local shop just recently.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No, the DMV hands out the license. The instructor passes or fails the student driver and the DMV issues the license. Not sure how that differs from Scuba. The instructor determines if you pass or fail, notifies the agency and they give you the license.
A difference is that your instructor can be identified. At least with PADI, and I’m sure this is common to most agencies, if the instructor violates standards in the course of training there is a corrective mechanism. I don’t know how often this occurs but I am aware that it did with a local shop just recently.

The instructor and examiner are two different people

 

[Bob DBF]

No, the DMV hands out the license. The instructor passes or fails the student driver and the DMV issues the license.

I guess that's the difference in states, in CA, MA (back when I was first licensed), and OH ( back when I lived there) one could take a drivers class and pass, but if you could not take and pass the state DMV administered written and driving test, you did not get a licence.

By the way, what states allow a driving instructor to issue a drivers license, later this year I'm driving cross country and I might want to avoid those states.


Bob

 

[JamesBon92007]

In California, at least in the past, the similarities are even more profound. At one point, in my early 20s, I was licensed to drive anything and everything with the exception of hazardous materials (propane, gasoline, etc.). IOW I was licensed to drive an 18 wheeler pulling two 40' trailers but I'd never been behind the wheel of one. I was also scuba certified to dive to whatever depth I wanted but in my class had only gone down to around 40 feet. I scored 100% on all of the written tests, for Class A, B, C, and D but I sure didn't have any experience driving the big rigs. So @Bob DBF, you might want to avoid California

 

[Bob DBF]

So @Bob DBF, you might want to avoid California

Too late for that I'm afraid, but I will be on my way out.


Bob