Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[Trace Malinowski]

Early dive training focused on eliminating the panic response in the face of stress and danger. Modern diver training emphasizes buoyancy control. There have always been great. mediocre, and bad instructors. There have always been great, mediocre, and bad divers. Early divers looked good in swimsuits. Today's diver lacks a beach body but looks good in trim. Early divers swam well. Today's diver floats neutral well. Early scuba gear was sexy. Modern recreational gear is tacky. Today's tech gear either looks sexy or like Darth Vader on life support.

Today's entry level training sucks herpetic moose balls, if early diver training appeals to you. Today's training is awesome, if you want to hover lazily over a reef. Modern tech and cave training is amazing and the well-trained modern tech or cave diver couldn't be touched by our predecessors. But, early divers had Steve McQueen cool, while modern tech or cave divers whine more than my girlfriend's figure skating students.

Some divers prefer old-fashioned books and an actual C-card. Others prefer digital materials and e-Cards. Some believe e-learning sucks. Others want to learn online on their own terms.

Students from the 50's until today want a champagne experience while paying Colt Malt Liquor prices.

 

[JamesBon92007]

I knew the jr OW worked that way, and then checked on jr AOW and it seems to work the same, even though it means there is not a requirement for deep dive training.


Bob

I'm not at all clear about the "deep dive" requirement. That is required to get PADI AOW? How deep is deep? I think someone mentioned 90 feet. To me it's a bit confusing because when my girlfriend got OW certified the instructor took her to 60 feet which seemed to be a requirement. However, since then she has been to about 80 feet and the DMs don't seem to give a flying rat's butt that she is only OW. So, if she was to log a dive to 90 feet (with a DM or instructor) could that be used to satisfy the AOW requirement if she decides to take the course?

I don't know about you Bob but when I got my certification it was to a "recommended sport diving depth" of 130 feet but we probably never got past 40 feet in the course. How deep did they take you?

Reading this discussion (and others) it sounds like AOW is not viewed by most as being an "advanced" certification level, but merely more in-depth than OW. What then, (not just you Bob), do people consider an advanced level? Is there a name for it?

 

[TMHeimer]

The PADI "deep" dive must only be below 60'--it can be 61'. I'm 99% sure you can't log a 90' dive outside the course then have it count for the course. If it's with the instructor that will be teaching the course, he may allow it.
JamesB- I'm sure you know that the PADI 60' OW limit really means that's what you should do until you are more experienced. To get experience to do deep dives that could be by gradually increasing your depth, or by diving to a deep depth with a DM or instructor. That's what I got from PADI, I think. Perhaps that's why some charters don't prohibit some OW divers going beyond 60'. My first boat dives were 73 and 78 feet, I think.

 

[JamesBon92007]

The PADI "deep" dive must only be below 60'--it can be 61'. I'm 99% sure you can't log a 90' dive outside the course then have it count for the course. If it's with the instructor that will be teaching the course, he may allow it.
JamesB- I'm sure you know that the PADI 60' OW limit really means that's what you should do until you are more experienced. To get experience to do deep dives that could be by gradually increasing your depth, or by diving to a deep depth with a DM or instructor. That's what I got from PADI, I think. Perhaps that's why some charters don't prohibit some OW divers going beyond 60'. My first boat dives were 73 and 78 feet, I think.

Thanks. I'm surprised that they would call 61 feet "deep" but I guess it is deeper than 60 feet

I think my girlfriend may have gone past 60 feet with her instructor but one a subsequent trip.

In any case I'm glad that my 15-year-old friend will be able to do the usual, regular dives if she chooses to dive while at Cozumel. We are trying to get her dad to do a Discover Scuba and have her tag along but that will probably limit her to 40 feet all over again But still, it's one of those opportunities that should not be passed up.

 

[boulderjohn]

Yes, the deep dive can be only 61 feet, which I do not condone, but it is not just going deep that makes it part of the course. You also have to do the knowledge review that goes with it. The dive itself has some skill associated with it, although it should have more.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yes, the deep dive can be only 61 feet, which I do not condone, but it is not just going deep that makes it part of the course. You also have to do the knowledge review that goes with it. The dive itself has some skill associated with it, although it should have more.

I wish it would be required to 100 feet, as that's the assumption of AOW certification. Completely agree on additional skills.

 

[Bob DBF]

I'm not at all clear about the "deep dive" requirement. That is required to get PADI AOW? How deep is deep? I think someone mentioned 90 feet. To me it's a bit confusing because when my girlfriend got OW certified the instructor took her to 60 feet which seemed to be a requirement.

61' covered by @TMHeimer. AOW deep is what changes the recommended depth limit to 100' from the 60' of OW.

I don't know about you Bob but when I got my certification it was to a "recommended sport diving depth" of 130 feet but we probably never got past 40 feet in the course. How deep did they take you?

When I started I was initially trained for NDL diving, which was to 190', the "rec limit" was made up between then and when I certified OW. On the last dive(#6) of OW class we dove to 60'. I am in no way saying that my class was the norm, it was a NAUI/PADI class and the instructor trained so his students could dive the NorCal (Mendocino) coast without adult supervision.

I put "rec limit" in quotes because technical diving is also recreational diving and no differentiation in name was made until the '90's, technical diving diving, basically decompression diving, before that was just considered advanced diving. The key concept is that OW training is No Decompression Limits Diving.

Yes, the deep dive can be only 61 feet, which I do not condone, but it is not just going deep that makes it part of the course. You also have to do the knowledge review that goes with it. The dive itself has some skill associated with it, although it should have more.

My point is that standards allow a minor restricted to 40', to upgrade from Jr AOW to AOW on their 15th birthday without doing the required deep Adventure dive, from what I've read from those selling the class.



Bob

 

[tursiops]

[QUOTE="Bob DBF, post: 8214187, ]
My point is that standards allow a minor restricted to 40', to upgrade from Jr AOW to AOW on their 15th birthday without doing the required deep Adventure dive, from what I've read from those selling the class.



Bob[/QUOTE]
This is not true, although it may be what you were told. Jr AOW requires the deep adventure dive, but limited to 70 ft.

 

[Bob DBF]

This is not true, although it may be what you were told. Jr AOW requires the deep adventure dive, but limited to 70 ft.

Thanks.
That's why I was questioning. The OW limit for a jr is 40', and nothing in any of the literature I found online said it would be violated. However, they did make a point that it could be upgraded to AOW at 15.


Bob

 

[boulderjohn]

The OW limit for a jr is 40', and nothing in any of the literature I found online said it would be violated.

My point is that standards allow a minor restricted to 40', to upgrade from Jr AOW to AOW on their 15th birthday without doing the required deep Adventure dive, from what I've read from those selling the class.

That limit is for 10-11 year old divers. They cannot get the Jr. AOW.