"Doing it Cheap" Why?

[tedshark]

The gear or the price someone pays for something does not make the diver, I think the ones with the basic stuff are the better divers, they are not concerned about what others think, at least this is what I see in some of the best divers I know.
I myself will take that chance and buy cheap, I have bought both, and I can also say that I have a wetsuit that cost half the price of another, I have, and I would not trade the cheap one for the more expensive one.
Aren't most regulators rebuildable, are the new gauges better quality over old gauges, do regulator hoses go bad, I think people spend money on the wrong item for the type of diving many times, but there are many out there that spend all this money on a full setup, and then for some reason don't use it and need to sell it all, others simply upgrade to something they like better, this does not mean what they are selling is junk.
One man's junk is another man's treasure.

 

[ams511]

What I also don't understand is people who buy used regulators thinking they are getting a great deal. Any used regulator should be serviced once purchased. By the time the additional $100-150 for servicing usually makes the total purchase more expensive than a new reg would be. But it seems people don't bother doing the math. Paying $200 for the used reg and $150 for the service is so much better than paying $350 for the new reg!?!

Some people make stupid decisions and some are very good. For example, Fishpie was selling on eBay a Conself SE2 with an Octo and gauges that went for $55 + shipping. Each stage of a Conself SE2 is balanced and was rated class A in the Navy tests. Yes it is and older regulator but an excellent one and still serviceable. Adding $150 for service a buyer is at roughly $225 including $20 for shipping. Where can you buy a new regulator, octo, and gauges for $225?

Some people may buy regulators that are unserviceable but I suspect they are more the exception than the rule.

 

[Kharon]

Get what you pay for? Hey, I've got a bridge you might want to look at. I can sell it cheap.

Let's take fins as an example. The range for decent usable fins is from a bit less than $20 to nearly $500. Do you really think that the most expensive fins are 25 times as good? Please!

As Dmoore19 said - buy what you want. I do. Personally I'd rather have the gear I've got and spend my money on Bonaire or Grand Cayman rather than huge expenditures on brand name and marginal improvement.

 

[dmoore19]

I find it strange that anybody really gives a damn what another diver uses for gear as long as it is in working condition. I have seen posts before saying the diver with the new expensive gear is an awful diver. I am not sure why this is even in the picture. I don't look at somebody's gear and see cash register receipts. Hell, most of the time I don't even know what the brand is let alone the model or the manufacturing date or MSRP. I couldn't tell the difference between 2 regs unless it was marked on them. It's really of no importance to me. Now is that S mean it's a sherwood or Scubapro?



I have never purchased anything off Craigslist or ebay and I detest garage sales.

 

[JayScuba]

As for the annual service, originally the dive industry used to recommend servicing when there was a problem and sold regulators with repair manuals and spare parts. Then when diving became mainstream, suddenly a diver needed annual service even though many if not most divers only make a handful of dives per year. Now thanks to Atomic, the industry now says you can go two years between service when nothing has changed except industry competition. The truth was very few divers needed their regulators rebuilt annually, it was just a ploy to make additional profit.

On the other side of the coin, I have anually seviced regulatore that probably should have been serviced twice a year. Of course the worst one, was left on a boat and never saw a fresh water rinse. Do you really want to wait until there is a problem with your regulator? I agree with you about the cases were the regs are only used on a handfull of dives, or only used in fresh water, but how is the equipment manufacturer suposed to know that? Who gets sued when one fails? Even if the manufacturer specifies a number of dives, I still depends on how well its rinsed and cared for and salt or fresh water. I am not saying I know the right answer, but I will say, I have serviced some nightmares, that I would not be cought dead diving with. Pun intended. This is not an area I would go cheap in.

 

[Colliam7]

What I also don't understand is people who buy used regulators thinking they are getting a great deal. Any used regulator should be serviced once purchased. By the time the additional $100-150 for servicing usually makes the total purchase more expensive than a new reg would be. But it seems people don't bother doing the math. Paying $200 for the used reg and $150 for the service is so much better than paying $350 for the new reg!?!

This is a very good point about the potential perils of 'buying gear cheap, simply because it is cheap'. The purchase price of a piece of used gear - and regulators are a good example - does not necessarily reflect the total cost.

The key to buying anything used - scuba gear is but one example - is understanding what you are buying, and understanding what a reasonable used cost is, and being prepared to accept some risk that the gear will turn out to be a lemon. I have purchased 10+ used regulators on eBay over that past few years. In all cases they were regulators I could service myself. I have the advantage of getting parts kits at cost (through the shop where I teach). And, in all cases I purchased them for a price that I determined in advance to be reasonable (I have a personal formula that I use to determine the maximum price I will be willing to pay). I have let a lot of gear go because the prices exceeded what was reasonable, at least for me.

Notably, in every case (with one minor exception), I have had a good experience with the regulator, out of the box, even before servicing it - I usually take the reg to the pool and use it, just to see what condition it is in, even before I service it. One of my favorite regulators is a Zeagle DS-V first stage that I bought on eBay for $75. It performed well before I serviced it, it performed well after I serviced it, and I would buy another. I would not have bought one new - I had no reason to - but I am glad I bought one used.

The only time I had an unexpected expense with a regulator was buying a Zeagle 50D with a ZX second stage. It sat in a box for 6 months after I received it, and when I finally went to use it the first time, I noticed it breathed wet. The second stage case had a small crack, and I had to invest $17 (at the time) in a new housing, plus my time (which I don't count since I enjoy working on regs). I do not know if the seller knew about the issue and was 'unloading a regulator', or if it was just one of those things that had gone un-noticed. It really didn't matter. Even after the expense of the housing and parts kits, I paid less than $150 for a fully functional first stage and second stage. A new 50D and ZX set-up would have cost quite a bit more.

The key to buying used equipment is to buy intelligently. With any used equipment, be it regulators, farm tractors, etc, there is some risk, and the buyer must understand what that risk is. Going back to Peter's original post, 'Just because it is "cheap" doesn't mean it is a good value' applies to new and used gear.

 

[scubastingray]

On the other side of the coin, I have anually seviced regulatore that probably should have been serviced twice a year. Of course the worst one, was left on a boat and never saw a fresh water rinse. Do you really want to wait until there is a problem with your regulator? I agree with you about the cases were the regs are only used on a handfull of dives, or only used in fresh water, but how is the equipment manufacturer suposed to know that? Who gets sued when one fails? Even if the manufacturer specifies a number of dives, I still depends on how well its rinsed and cared for and salt or fresh water. I am not saying I know the right answer, but I will say, I have serviced some nightmares, that I would not be cought dead diving with. Pun intended. This is not an area I would go cheap in.

No one is saying every regulator could go two years without servicing. Of course if you abuse a reg set those regs will be in awful shape. Buying cheap regs doesn't mean leaving them in a salty bucket of water in between dive trips.

 

[fjpatrum]

For me, the answers are "why pay more when I don't need to" and "because I can." Any gear used for scuba I can service and/or repair myself so I'm comfortable being cheap in that regard. Almost all of my purchases are made strictly based upon price. I research what I need to know, both here on Scubaboard and elsewhere and make informed choices about whether a price is acceptable for any given piece of equipment.

My original OW class was purchased based on price as well. I got lucky and my OW class actually was pretty decent but training is the one area I won't be deliberately cheap about in the future. Again, I'm going to try and get the best deal I can for quality training, but, like hardware, I do a lot of research about things before making any purchases.

 

[freewillie]

Sounds like for a few people I really hit a nerve.

Nothing in the opening post says don't go for value -- this is all about going cheap -- and yes, there is a huge difference.

I suppose what really got me going was this thread -- http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...6362-compressor-air-testing-cost-who-use.html -- the guy had purchased and rebuilt a compressor and now was bitching about the "high price" of testing his air. Don't get me wrong -- there is nothing wrong at all with shopping and determining that X is offering a good deal -- perhaps the same thing as Y but at a lower price. But, really, bitching about the high cost of testing the air in a compressor you just rebuilt? Really, is one's life honestly that cheap?

A huge problem for people entering this activity is that they really don't know what a good value is. Maybe, in fact, the $99 Living Social Coupon deal is a great value, but maybe it isn't. As some have written, doing one's homework is the key.

But there still is no reason for "Doing It Cheap" as opposed to "Doing It With Value" -- for they are NOT the same thing.

This thread got a little off topic, at least from Peter's original post. It's more about a mind set of spending a lot of money an any piece of scuba gear then getting concerned about what this little bit of cost adds on to the maintenance or cost of operation. Not whether or not less expensive regulators (or any scuba gear) is better value than other expensive regulators (or any other scuba gear).

I was mentioning in another post about using an airline credit card to purchase airline tickets for a vacation. Depending on your card you can get up to 2 bags checked and waive the usual baggage fees. Peter's comment was along the lines of I'm spending over $4,000 on plane tickets, hotel, and dive trips on vacation and I'm concerned about saving $50 in baggage fees. Penny wise and pound foolish. Of course, why pay the extra $50 if it's free for using a specific credit card. I've got to use one anyways to buy the plane ticket, might as well use the same one for the airline I'm already flying on anyways.

I was in the market for a dive light. My instructor recommended a particular brand, I was looking at another light not because it was good but because it was cheap. His comment was I could buy a cheap light now and then another one later when that one broke, or go ahead and just buy the better one for just a little more up front. It would be cheaper in the long one to get one good flashlight than the cost of two cheap ones. Penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[fnfalman]

Met any yet? Didn't think so....

"I want the kind of chicks who want a set of well used Aqualung Titan (not even LX) regs and a beat up console."

Come to Southern California and I'll introduce you to plenty of female divers who don't give a damn about T3X titanium/unobtanium regulators. They're happy as a lark hitting the water with Sherwood or Oceanic something or another.