Eagles Nest Again

[Dan]

yeah no

Why?

 

[Caveeagle]

A good dive buddy would prevent this from happening. May be by chasing him, grabbing his fin & calm him down.

Is this a serious comment? Have you ever tried to stop, or slow down a diver in full on bolt-to-surface mode? I have, and even in close proximity where I outweighed said boltee by 100#, it was challenging.

Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but your comment seemed to imply that if (in this case) a "good buddy" would have saved him. ...which is highly unlikely. (Given limited info)

 

[tbone1004]

Why?

because in cave diving you aren't that close to your buddy, and almost always in single file, and he was probably in the back of the team. If the buddy was behind him then MAYBE, but if the victim was in the back, it's not going to happen. The only hope he has of signalling his buddy to come help is with his light, but even then, buddy has to stop, turn around, and kick backwards to get there, by which time he is already making a rapid ascent and then the buddy risks his life to get up there in hopes of pulling him down. All while trying to dump his suit and wing, loop if on a ccr, enough to make this guys ascent stop who was probably pounding on his suit and/or wing which are all inflating as he ascends.

100% not possible in a cave like that

 

[tursiops]

Why?

If someone is trying to get shallower to prevent O2 toxicity, am I really helping by preventing him from doing that, even if I could?

 

[victorzamora]

A good dive buddy would prevent this from happening. May be by chasing him, grabbing his fin & calm him down.

In OW, well within No-Deco Limits with a small BCD, no CCR, no drysuit, and a buddy that happened to be watching this unfold....chances would be slim, anyway.

Assuming a "typical" Open Circuit cave diver's config of drysuit and decently big wing (I need and actually use all of my 45lbs wing), you get a diver with the ability to accelerate aggressively to the surface once they start ascending. If there was a runaway inflator (purpose or accident), it'd be VERY hard to catch them.

If you're not watching the buddy intently and watch it begin, by the time you can even react, they'll be WAY above you and accelerating faster than you can achieve.

Near deco limits, the chances of YOU getting bent are really high....not to mention the always-present chance of embolisms. So your buddy is already above you, rocketing to the surface away from you, hauling butt upwards. You're going to have to ascend WAY, WAY faster than him to catch him before he breaches the surface. That puts you in serious danger as well.

In a cave, you get all of this compounded by rock ceilings, navigational concerns, etc.

On top of all of that - holding someone underwater against their will can be pretty sketchy. A story here on Scubaboard from a couple years ago had an OW student nearly drown (like, ambulances called, CPR, defibrillators, etc) due to an instructor holding the student down.

 

[Dan]

@Caveeagle
@tbone1004
@tursiops
@victorzamora

Thanks for your explanations, which show my ignorance about cave diving, & teach me to be careful in reacting to such situation even in recreational diving.

 

[tbone1004]

@Dan_T no worries. It's a unique type of diving with a lot of different facets. In OW we do preach side by side buddy contact, no more than a fin kick apart, balanced rigs, etc. and in that instance you may well be able to arrest or at least retard/control a panicked ascent like that. In a cave the reality is that we can't dive in that type of buddy configuration. While many preach about team diving and what not, it is very different than team diving in OW.
The location of this incident is a bit more similar to OW than a traditional cave in that it is a large room with immense height *~150ft* so you can really jump up in depth vs. a normal cave where you may have 15-20ft of height in the passage

 

[Ken Kurtis]

A good dive buddy would prevent this from happening. May be by chasing him, grabbing his fin & calm him down.

This is really not meant to sound as snide as I fear it may but . . .

Anyone who thinks they can stop a bolting diver from bolting has never tried it for real.

They're going to the surface and IF you can catch them, you're going with them.

 

[tursiops]

This is really not meant to sound as snide as I fear it may but . . .

Anyone who thinks they can stop a bolting diver from bolting has never tried it for real.

They're going to the surface and IF you can catch them, you're going with them.

^^This^^
The most you can do is slow them down. A little. And you may get your mask kicked off while you are trying.

 

[Dan]

This is really not meant to sound as snide as I fear it may but . . .

Anyone who thinks they can stop a bolting diver from bolting has never tried it for real.

They're going to the surface and IF you can catch them, you're going with them.

I was just thinking when I’m at depth (say 100’ deep) & my buddy who is a few feet away suddenly bolt up, my first instinct would be to reach up & grab one of his fin. Now I know it’s a bad idea. Just let him be & kill himself. Thanks for pointing that out.