Is Deep Sea Supply out of business

[RainPilot]

Since this thread seems fully hijacked by now...

All in one solutions are really nice, till they aren't. The problem with integrated anything is that when one function fails, you often lose all the rest, too.

So there you are on a trip and your Air2 decides to die. You are VERY unlikely to find another to replace it while it's serviced. So, you then need to find a new LPI, a new second stage and then utilise them safely, which may or may not be a problem but is definitely not optimal.

One of the MAIN reasons I advocate BP/W for my students is not about trim and neutral weighting, but modularity. A conventional jacket BCD is very tricky to repair or replace parts that are broken, more often than not on the older ones you end up buying a whole new one. OTH, you can almost always find a compatible wing / LPI / harness / STA or what have you, from any one of a multitude of vendors.

With an Air2 or equivalent, aside from the logistics of gas sharing (not optimal but not a death trap, given a bit of realistic practice) if you ever have issues, it gets really expensive to replace or maintain. If the LPI housing cracks after a few years due to UV and salt and abuse, you are buying a new LPI and a new second stage and a new hose if your brand / model isn't still around.

They seem great at first (I had one for a few years while I tried to self-learn minimalist gear) but they have not IME turned out to be all that good of a solution in the end.

 

[lexvil]

Everything is a great idea until it fails, if your standard inflator fails, do you have a spare? I carry a spare and if an air 2 fails I put it on and switch the hose. If you end up with a failed octo due to UV damage or it getting smashed in some sort of handling accident, do you have a spare? I carry a spare reg set most of the time, the “what if’s” can go on and on, 40 years ago trepidation over the “new” contraption was a bit more justified but now days it’s all pretty bullet proof.

A bp/w is also pretty bullet proof, modularity is a plus as is improved trim etc. none of that helped when I went to Truk and the airline decided to let my bag with the bp/w vacation on Guam for a few extra days, ended up in a rental jacket for a few days, fortunately I had a reg, one computer and a pair of GO fins in my carry on.

Most issues can be planned for ahead of time and pretty much every problem has a workable solution if you remain flexible.

 

[Bob DBF]

I don't see my Scubapro Air2 giving up anything. It breaths very well, and is even reasonably comfortable. I take it out of my mouth to dump air from the BC, but that's something I've practiced doing.

I've heard about having to remove the Air 2 in order to dump air, but I couldn't remember one of my buddies doing that when we drilled air shares. Below is a link showing that at least from 2008 there are four ways to dump air from the shoulder valve on their jackets equipped with an Air 2.

https://ww2.scubapro.com/media/734275/vl_09-2017_scubapro_jacket-eng.pdf

If this was not possible on prior BC's, I'd be inclined to upgrade the dump valve.


Bob

 

[CuzzA]

At the end of the day, the AIR2 debate can be summed up like this.

Group A, who actually uses an AIR2 has no problems with the configuration.

Group B, who doesn't use an AIR2 identifies every scuba related global failure known to man.

The product can fulfill various needs of different divers, and so divers should consider that before making blanket condemnations.

FYI, because this myth keeps coming up, the AIR2 inflator hose is nothing more than a standard LP hose. The bigger schrader valve quick connect is simply screwed on and can be placed on any other hose. The bigger quick connect also has the advantage of being much easier to disconnect should you have a runaway inflation event.

Also it should be noted that if you're opining about past AIR2s, they have come a long way. The current AIR2 likely breathes better than many of the regs in service today.

 

[dmaziuk]

If your not on Facebook, do you even exist?

 

[lowlysubaruguy]

As far as Air2 I see the concerns about dumping air if your wing or bcd isn’t equipped with a separate dump valve the Nighthawk has this its easy to use. But I can tell you for a fact a few places I talked to about adding it to a wing we’re thinking just snap it right in place on almost anything without even thinking that you don’t have an easy way to dump air in an emergency. I hadn’t thought about it.

You guys should join some of the automotive forums Im on we can take a conversation about a Volvo thats got a corroded terminal on the blue and red wire in connector B14 and bash that thing into a conversation about a Starter motor issue on a Buick LOL Very entertaining for sure.

This has been an entertaining read I also learned a few more things.

And tonight after killing my quest for a BPW one more time there’s yet more for you guys to thrash me on. And I’m good with it. My next trip is not far off and my normally hectic life will be spinning in high gear soon so I was ready to just wait until Im in Florida again. But i don’t give up very often so I found a dive shop in Seattle that had about five BPW on hand all used but Two were like new. So I drove up today.

My version of like new is a lot different than theres for sure I would not have bought any of them. But I was able to confirm two things. I need shoulder releases and the Halcyon plate fit my lower back better than the other three theres a bend in the lower corners the others didnt have this and I did not like there fit as well. We wrapped the 12 hour day up with my wife trying on a few BCDS everything is to big or to small. Gave up And came home. Content to wait until I have more time.

Previously I had read about the Halcyon Cinch and I googled it again tonight. This afternoon somone posted a Halcyon Infinity set up with literally everything I would have ordered brand new still folded and in the origonal box on Ebay. We bantered around for a bit and I accepted one of his counter offers. For me if it works its a win if I dont like the Cinch feature I can alway replace the harness and use buckles on the shoulder straps. But i figure things out and am optimistic that I can work it. I dont mind complex I make my living on complex mechanical things it cant be that complex can it. I read that they stop sliding smoothly? if this is an issue with the plastic glides im a half assed machinist from the images I think a set of highly polished aluminum glides would be the ticket. And here one or two of you thought I wasnt even capable of feeding a strap through some holes. And I’m already thinking about making parts for it from scratch. But feel free to throw out any positive and negative things about it most of them are entertaining if there not educational.

I am ditching the Air2 and will have to find a restraint system for that regulator and hose would love to hear some ideas for this or see pictures. Im sure some of the local dive shops can help me with that. Sometimes I think I live on the dark side of the moon.

Now how long should my hose on that regulator be yet another thing I don’t know I’ve been using air two since the beginning.

Thanks for all the input its been a good read.

 

[RainPilot]

If you have been using Air2 from the beginning, then you are already doing primary regulator donate.

In that case, a short hose for the backup, bungeed around your neck, should be the least cluttered. One of these

Cressi Octopus Necklace One Size

should work well, you can also tie your own with a bit of bungee.

The hose should be just long enough to let the reg sit comfortably at your neck, and when its in your mouth you should be able to look all the way left.

For the primary hose, just use what you have now, possibly routing it under your arm to an elbow if you want to be really streamlined. This video may give you some starting points:

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

As far as Air2 I see the concerns about dumping air if your wing or bcd isn’t equipped with a separate dump valve the Nighthawk has this its easy to use. But I can tell you for a fact a few places I talked to about adding it to a wing we’re thinking just snap it right in place on almost anything without even thinking that you don’t have an easy way to dump air in an emergency. I hadn’t thought about it.

You guys should join some of the automotive forums Im on we can take a conversation about a Volvo thats got a corroded terminal on the blue and red wire in connector B14 and bash that thing into a conversation about a Starter motor issue on a Buick LOL Very entertaining for sure.

This has been an entertaining read I also learned a few more things.

And tonight after killing my quest for a BPW one more time there’s yet more for you guys to thrash me on. And I’m good with it. My next trip is not far off and my normally hectic life will be spinning in high gear soon so I was ready to just wait until Im in Florida again. But i don’t give up very often so I found a dive shop in Seattle that had about five BPW on hand all used but Two were like new. So I drove up today.

My version of like new is a lot different than theres for sure I would not have bought any of them. But I was able to confirm two things. I need shoulder releases and the Halcyon plate fit my lower back better than the other three theres a bend in the lower corners the others didnt have this and I did not like there fit as well. We wrapped the 12 hour day up with my wife trying on a few BCDS everything is to big or to small. Gave up And came home. Content to wait until I have more time.

Previously I had read about the Halcyon Cinch and I googled it again tonight. This afternoon somone posted a Halcyon Infinity set up with literally everything I would have ordered brand new still folded and in the origonal box on Ebay. We bantered around for a bit and I accepted one of his counter offers. For me if it works its a win if I dont like the Cinch feature I can alway replace the harness and use buckles on the shoulder straps. But i figure things out and am optimistic that I can work it. I dont mind complex I make my living on complex mechanical things it cant be that complex can it. I read that they stop sliding smoothly? if this is an issue with the plastic glides im a half assed machinist from the images I think a set of highly polished aluminum glides would be the ticket. And here one or two of you thought I wasnt even capable of feeding a strap through some holes. And I’m already thinking about making parts for it from scratch. But feel free to throw out any positive and negative things about it most of them are entertaining if there not educational.

I am ditching the Air2 and will have to find a restraint system for that regulator and hose would love to hear some ideas for this or see pictures. Im sure some of the local dive shops can help me with that. Sometimes I think I live on the dark side of the moon.

Now how long should my hose on that regulator be yet another thing I don’t know I’ve been using air two since the beginning.

Thanks for all the input its been a good read.

Just curious, which shop? I'm guessing 8, as few shops stock bp/w.

But anyway, I'd recommend a 7 foot long hose. 5 foot is just too short unless you are "not tall" and slender and diving in warm water.

There are two ways to trap the hose. You can tuck into your belt or you can trap using a canister or a canister stick (sold at Extreme Exposure).

That said, I'd also recommend going back up to 8 (assuming you went there) and take fundies from Alex or Kees. That's the only skills course of value that I've ever taken.

 

[JohnnyC]

My biggest issue with an Air2 type of device is that it is also your inflator, and inflator issues are not an uncommon occurrence. Unplugging your Air2 to solve a leaky inflator also removes it from usable gas delivery, one that you're supposed to rely on in an emergency.

A leaky inflator shouldn't be a dive-ending event. However, with any octo/inflator, it becomes one as you no longer have an option to donate gas to an OOG diver. "But we can buddy breathe!" you say.... Sure, but when's the last time you practiced a buddy breathing ascent with no powered buoyancy control device? What was a mild annoyance (having to manually inflate your own BCD during the dive) now becomes a serious event with an OOG diver, two divers having to manually control their BCD's (remember one is OOG and the other has no inflator), while making a safe ascent, without a working regulator for half the time.

I understand the appeal, and when I first started diving I thought it was a fantastic device. Now, unless you're solo diving, or you dive with a pony all the time, it's not something I would recommend to anyone. That, coupled with the need for a substantially longer corrugated hose in order to get enough length, leaves it open to dangling, putting it at greater risk for damage, debris incursion, etc.

I won't knock someone who has one and enjoys using it, but there are other risk factors at play that most people don't consider. As long as you and your buddy are ok with assuming that greater risk, drive on and enjoy.

 

[Marie13]

@lowlysubaruguy

If your wife wants a BP/W, but the standard size plates don’t fit her, Halcyon has a SHORT plate. I only found out about recently. Fits me much better than the standard size plate. PM me for more info or look for my “journey into tech” thread.