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Rescue type question

Discussion in 'Advanced Scuba' started by Zef, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. doctormike

    doctormike Medical Moderator Staff Member

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: New York City
    Yeah, I guess we got more information about the OP after our posts... Sorry if I misunderstood you, I thought that you were saying that as long as someone is a certified diver, that supersedes any other consideration like the parent-child relationship, or knowing that while someone has the skills and knowledge to pass a PADI OW test, they don't have the judgement not to do something stupid.

    I agree that flooding the mask doesn't sound like a good tactic to use in this situation (or any) - that can result in laryngospasm, aspiration and death in a panicked, inexperienced or incapacitated diver. I also think that the standard technique taught in the rescue diver course (controlling the tank valve, etc..) would have been a better choice.

    I guess I'm just seeing myself in that exact situation, with a teenager doing what teenagers have been doing to their parents since teenagers were invented.

    It's really more of a parenting discussion than a diving discussion in some ways. I would make it absolutely clear on the surface that when your buddy is thumbing a dive (the OP was his daughter's buddy on ascent) that isn't a request, that's a statement. And I would make it also very clear that if I am taking my underage child on a dive trip, I get to set all the rules, just because. If I decide that she needs to surface with 2500 PSI, then that's what she needs to do if she want's to dive. Dad's decision outweighs PADI standards. I would also probably make her work out some rock bottom calculations for the dive before I let her dive again...
    Herb-alaska and gfaith like this.
  2. Steve_C

    Steve_C Contributor Rest in Peace

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Raleigh, NC USA
    This is not a criticism, but a question. It is not clear to me that she did not manage her air correctly. On more than one occasion, and I rarely dive with a group guide, I have seen a DM guide put somebody on their octo for a while. This was not done when they were low on air. This was done at the point that the DM saw they were going through their air faster than the rest of the group but they still had plenty of air. After a few minutes the DM returned them to their own air supply which was sufficient for them to complete the remainder of the dive including assent and safety stop. At all times the diver had enough air to make their assent.

    Had the reverse happen to me once. Had hired a private DM for a few dives in Greece. On a night dive it turned out she had grabbed a wrong tank that was partially empty and overestimated my SAC. Rather than turning our dive early, we swam along for a while in an air share leaving us both plenty for the return and safety stop.

    Typically guide DMs have very low SAC rates. Her going over to the DMs air for a while and extending her dive could have been perfectly safe if done while she still had an adequate reserve for a safe finish and assent. Again I do not know if this happened, but if she had done an air share on the previous dive it may be that the guide had made her feel that part of his/her air was for her use if needed.
    fjpatrum and Necklinsberg like this.
  3. CuzzA

    CuzzA Percoidea Wetwork for Hire ScubaBoard Supporter

    No problem, we agree. I misread your post.

    As for the video I realize some YouTube subscribers commented the video was a simulated training video, but I can't imagine any training agency doing a stunt like that where you have someone blindly restraining a diver, the problem diver without fins, the problem diver throwing blind kicks at another diver, then viciously ripping another divers mask off and if you watch the diver restraining the problem diver you see him try to be cautious about taking the divers mask, pulling his hand back once to avoid detection. Rarely do I ever read YouTube subscribers comments nor do I put any merit into what they say. But then again, I could be wrong, it's on the Internet. :wink:
  4. Necklinsberg

    Necklinsberg Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Lancaster County, PA
    ""I than watched her signal her buddy that she had 70Bar left in her tank.""

    "the dive brief was to ascend and conduct a safety stop, deploy DSMB, and then surface once your guage indicated 50 bar."

    Maybe I'm missing something, but when you intervened, she wasn't out of air and wasn't out of the dive plan.
    Steve_C likes this.
  5. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Lexington, SC

  6. Herb-alaska

    Herb-alaska Contributor

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Alaska

    Stuart she was at 30 feet for goodness sakes then was pulled up to about 25 feet and was descending to the group who appears to be a few feet below. You make it sound like she was incoherent and plunging into the great blue, the diver was making a reasonable decision to rejoin the dive group with 1000 psi in her tank. The problem was that she was ignoring her father's wishes which is a parent child issue not a diver issue
    OldNSalty likes this.
  7. OldNSalty

    OldNSalty Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Just this side of paradise.
    Exactly! Which is why as a father I totally support "yank your kid out of the water" (figuratively). If it was just another diver I would have given her the 1 finger salute and went solo.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    Herb-alaska likes this.
  8. archer1960

    archer1960 Contributor

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: Southern New England, USA
    Yeah, that's one that I thought of too, the Knee Cradle position that is taught in Rescue Diver.
  9. fjpatrum

    fjpatrum Contributor

    # of Dives: 50 - 99
    Location: DC area
    Maybe I'm missing something but 70 Bar isn't 50 Bar. If she still had gas and was cognizant enough to use the guide's gas to extend her time, it sounds like she was managing her gas correctly while getting the most of the dive for her and her (more advanced) dive buddy. Win win.

    That said, if my child ignored me telling her to surface, she wouldn't be diving again any time soon. (The only child I have old enough to dive hasn't been certified and has never acted this way in any other "dangerous" environment, thank goodness.)

    EDIT: I would likely have tried pulling her up by her valve but may have also resorted to a mask flooding if I already had physical "control" (or the ability to assert it) to prevent a panicked rapid ascent.
  10. Basking Ridge Diver

    Basking Ridge Diver Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: New Jersey
    I am curious - and this is an exaggeration - if by chance the person freaked and you drag them up while they are holding their breath - for those that think this is ok - how would you feel?
    What would be your defense when the person is seriously hurt and more importantly not dead and can recant the story of you forcing them to the surface?

    I understand the parent child relationship but I think I would have shaken them and taken control but flooding a mask and forcing them to the surface just sounds like a recipe for disaster...
    On the surface is the time to chew their ear off and give them the consequences for the actions - no? :confused:

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