Which BP/W system to buy?

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks for the partial lesson Tobin.

Now imagine surfacing in the heavy chop as I described in my earlier post.
You do as Tobin has just taught us only to have the Backplate or tank slam into the back of your head.

Complete and total BS. I've done it in doubles many times without any of the problems you describe.

Here's a clue, getting out of your gear in the water is more likely in rough conditions than calm.

If your gear is beating you up I'd suggest reviewing your technique.

More practice, less crappy attitude and silly posts.

Tobin

 

[fnfalman]

Here's a photo of Dive Rite's CEO Lamar Hires using an adjustable harness BCD.

I'm sure that Mr. Hires doesn't know anything about technical diving unlike the SB DIR experts.

Perhaps one of you guys can go teach him before he dies while diving without a continuous harness BPW.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Here's a photo of Dive Rite's CEO Lamar Hires using an adjustable harness BCD.

I'm sure that Mr. Hires doesn't know anything about technical diving unlike the SB DIR experts.

Perhaps one of you guys can go teach him before he dies while diving without a continuous harness BPW.

Please show me where anybody claimed that adjustable harnesses will kill.

The claim has been made that single piece harnesses are a less safe alternative than an adjustable harness due to an imagined difficulty doffing in the water.

This is simply not true.

BTW, fnfalman, are you aware of what conditions drove the development of the DR Transpac?

Tobin

 

[Codyjp]

Here's a photo of Dive Rite's CEO Lamar Hires using an adjustable harness BCD.

I'm sure that Mr. Hires doesn't know anything about technical diving unlike the SB DIR experts.

Perhaps one of you guys can go teach him before he dies while diving without a continuous harness BPW.

The point being made was that a continuous harness wasn't as dangerous as RAW implied. I don't think anybody made a reference against a buckle until your post.

I've not seen one of the DR things in use, how do you like it?

 

[bennybuoy]

There's a lot of choices, so don't rush into a purchase until you've exhausted your research.

Question 1# Why do you want/need a Comfort Harness?

Do you just assume that is would be better due to the cost..or because it resembles the jacket BCD style you are already familiar with? If you've not tried a plain ('Hog' or Hogarthian) harness, then do this first. You may find that you much prefer the basic harness, to the fancy one. Many divers do

In my logic, it's better to get the standard version first...and upgrade later if you have to, then to get the fancy one first and end up selling it a month later on Craigslist at a major loss.

I made this mistake when I bought my first wing. The comfort harness was listed on Ebay within a month of buying it. sigh.

Question 2# How much wing volume do you need?

Single tank wings are available in a range of volumes, from 16l up to 40l. Don't buy bigger capacity than you will need. Oxycheq sell some great small volume (<30l capacity) wings.

Question 3# Do you have any specific requirements?

I wreck dive, so I look for the most robust and puncture/abrasion resistant wing possible. I imagine the same is true for cave divers, and even many 'reef' divers. Investigate the wing fabric materials. The Oxycheq Mach V Extreme wing has 3x the abrasion and puncture resistance of Kevlar. I've already singled this out for my next purchase

Question 4# What backplate do you need?

Steel? Aluminum? Kydex? Nylon? The weight and durability of different backplate materials is a key factor in your decision. I have both a steel and aluminum backplates. Steel is best when I drysuit dive, as it compensates more for the increased buoyancy. Aluminum is a great option for travelling.

Question 6# How might you want to expand your configuration in the future?

Getting a good single tank configuration can save time and money later, as you might get into twinset/technical diving. Plan ahead if that is a possibility.

OMS are fine in terms of quality and cost. Some brands like Halcyon, Agir and Oxycheq offer wider ranges and may have better quality, but are also more expensive. Do check out DSS wings.... they are simular to OMS, but may be cheaper?

Thanks Andy for the thorough info. I guess I liked the look of the comfort harness and I thought "It's more expensive it must be better!" - but one of the biggest things I like was that it looked comfortable if I was to dive without a wetsuit (ie Just boardshorts) as the water here is quite warm.

When it comes to the type of diving I will be doing it will be a mixed bag. I had originally decided to purchase a standard jacket BCD but after reading this forum most people were of the opinion that a jacket BC was a waste of money and they purchased BP/W systems shortly after starting diving - this is what made me think BP/W.

I spoke to a friend of mine who dives a BP/W with twins, he suggested perhaps for me to purchase a jacket BC now and then later invest in a BP/W when I start diving doubles. He reckons he still dives his jacket BC for singles and the wing when he dives twins. He also suggested that the BP/W with a continuous weave harness isn't very expensive so having both could be an option?

Cheers

Ben

 

[BB1]

I'd second the advice to buy a BP/W now.

We bought ours after about 20 dives from certifying and got them from Tobin at DSS.

The wife wanted a comfort harness and Tobin advised against it and said we should get her a continuos rigged harnes and get her to try it. He did also tell us how to go about adding clips to that harness if she really couldn't get on with it.

After the first week of diving with it while on holiday she is not interested in any clips or comfort style harness - quite happy with standard hog harness.

We dive ours all around SE QLD with single tanks and wouldn't go back to a jacket BCD for anything. Why waste the money?? ANyone have a BP/W that you can try out??

 

[DevonDiver]

Hi Ben,

Glad that helped

Thanks Andy for the thorough info. I guess I liked the look of the comfort harness and I thought "It's more expensive it must be better!" - but one of the biggest things I like was that it looked comfortable if I was to dive without a wetsuit (ie Just boardshorts) as the water here is quite warm.

This is undoubtably why most BP&W converts opt for the 'luxury' or 'comfort' harnesses. I see 3 primary factors, that can reflect in an unnecessary purchase...

1) Familiarity. Comfort harness looks like a jacket BCD. People stick with what they know - even though they are moving to something different...

2) Misappreciating BP&W. A metal backplate and basic harness looks unconfortable and awkward. It really does... The looks are decieving, it is very comfortable, even for diving without a wetsuit.

3) Manufacturer Marketing. Some of the manufacturers do market the 'comfort harnesses' to increase the illusion. If you they sell a 'comfort harness'... then it might mean that the other harness is not comfortable?? Of course, the comfort harness is an 'added option/upgrade' and makes more profit for those companies.

When it comes to the type of diving I will be doing it will be a mixed bag. I had originally decided to purchase a standard jacket BCD but after reading this forum most people were of the opinion that a jacket BC was a waste of money and they purchased BP/W systems shortly after starting diving - this is what made me think BP/W.

It is certainly worth investigating. The overwhelming majority of those who convert to BP&W wouldn't go back. IMHO, the small minority who return to jacket types are mostly people who didn't get the right advice to set up and use the BP&W properly.

There aren't many items of equipment in recreational diving that will draw such strong opinions from users. Converts to BP&W tend to be very outspoken on the subject. They must really love the benefits given by the equipment to be so vocal about it.

Nobody ever said that you can't or shouldn't dive with a comfort harness.

However, many of us do believe that you shouldn't opt for a comfort harness out of ignorance or misundertanding.... or because of some slick marketing. Worst of all, don't opt for a comfort harness to compensate weak diving skills and understanding of the proper techniques. That is a common mistake.

My recommendations are to try and dive with the kit, before purchasing and see what you prefer. When you do that, get lots of advice on how to fit and adjust it properly. Be aware that lots of dive professionals and shop staff won't be experts at helping you do this!

If you can't 'try before you buy'... then I would suggest you opt for a basic harness first. They are much cheaper. If you really don't like it, then you could always upgrade to the more expensive comfort harness later... That certainly seems the most cost efficient purchasing strategy to me

I spoke to a friend of mine who dives a BP/W with twins, he suggested perhaps for me to purchase a jacket BC now and then later invest in a BP/W when I start diving doubles. He reckons he still dives his jacket BC for singles and the wing when he dives twins. He also suggested that the BP/W with a continuous weave harness isn't very expensive so having both could be an option?

If you are going to eventually dive doubles... why would you want to have to change between two different configurations, requiring different techniques, different equipment and providing different buoyancy and trim properties??

All you need is one backplate and harness. You can easily buy both single and double tank wings. They take seconds to interchange. The only cost to upgrade to diving doubles will be a new wing...not a completely new system. Once you get that backplate and harness properly fitted, you won't want to use anything else.

The other advantage is that, in the meantime, when you are diving with the single-tank wing, you will be getting accustomed to the properties of the BP&W. When you eventually go for double diving... you will already be very familiar with the equipment.

 

[bennybuoy]

I'd second the advice to buy a BP/W now.

We bought ours after about 20 dives from certifying and got them from Tobin at DSS.

The wife wanted a comfort harness and Tobin advised against it and said we should get her a continuos rigged harnes and get her to try it. He did also tell us how to go about adding clips to that harness if she really couldn't get on with it.

After the first week of diving with it while on holiday she is not interested in any clips or comfort style harness - quite happy with standard hog harness.

We dive ours all around SE QLD with single tanks and wouldn't go back to a jacket BCD for anything. Why waste the money?? ANyone have a BP/W that you can try out??

I will see if I can try out my friends with the doubles, what kind of wing do you use with the single tanks setup?

Cheers,

Ben

 

[BB1]

I will see if I can try out my friends with the doubles, what kind of wing do you use with the single tanks setup?

Cheers,

Ben

Hi,

We gave Tobin all our details over at the DSS manufacturers forum and he suggested a long plate for me (tall fella) and medium for the wife. Wings for both of us was a Taurus 26.

We've used this for tanks from Al80's throughto Faber steel 15L - works great!!!

Because the DSS (and Oxycheq) wings are so narrow it really helps underwater - was worth around 10 minutes eextra dive time for us!!

DSS pre sale and post sale support is awesome which is why we decided to buy them. Shipping to OZ was an easy experience!

 

[vladimir]

I bought a Deep Sea Supply rig from Tobin, which I highly recommend. I am one of those recreational divers that switched from comfort harness to continuous webbing. (Yes, the comfort harness is in a crate, in a storage bin in PA.) I believe the continuous harness is superior because it is simpler, uncluttered with extraneous hardware, and because the webbing is stiffer. I have no trouble doffing and donning, in water and out--it's really not that different from my old ScubaPro Classic, since that also had no shoulder releases. That said, I would like it better if it had a Fastex quick release on one shoulder. (I know--I could put one in.) I believe that whatever increased risk the "extra failure point" introduces is negligible. The extra buckle might be a nuisance to those divers that need two backup lights, for example--but it wouldn't interfere with my gear configuration. YMMV.