Around here, we tell each other to....."Unf*#k yourself".
That's considered to be positive reinforcement, here locally.
Cheers,
Mitch
That's considered to be positive reinforcement, here locally.
Cheers,
Mitch
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So basically three questions
1/ - "How do I confront an 'experienced' buddy about their behaviour"
2/ - "What can I do if the experienced diver is not open to feedback"
3/ - "How do I, as an experienced diver, remain open to feedback from my buddies"
Phil
I posted the original questions and then sat and thought about it for a while - two things came to mind.
First when I came back to diving I thought I was a good buddy, on refection I am sure I was not. When I re-trained buddy diving was stressed, repeatedly, and I 'knew' the importance of it.
Sadly I don't actually think that what good buddy diving "looked like" was really explained to me. Or else in fairness to my instructors, it may have been, but the reality never sunk in with everything else I was trying to learn and so on.
So for my first dives I stayed close to my buddy, slightly behind them where I could see them and follow like a puppy, they were more experienced after all, and I didn't stray off to look or follow anything or anyone else.
I remember a quarry dive, one of my first Drysuit dives, I'd got about 20-30 warm water dives, but very little cold water experience, poor visibility 3-4 foot only, so the chap I was with wanted to use a buddy line, no problem we used it and I sat just behind him as I had fallen into the habit of doing. Afterwards he paid me a compliment - or so I thought at the time - he said "most of the time I didn't even know you were there, you never pulled against the line once". Go me - perfect buoyancy and no problems staying close !
I got a shock then when I got my first (and most instructive) regular dive buddy/mentor - Thanks Norm, a few years older than me, neither of us are young, an ex cave diver (Florida search and rescue team in the 80's and 90's I think) photo's and tales of himself diving with people like Sheck Exley and so on, Norm just radiates experience and competence. After our second or third dive he told me he didn't like my buddy skills - he was always having to look around for me as he didn't know here I was.
This actually upset me a bit, I was a good buddy !, and I defended myself and said I was always there, just behind him, he agreed - but crucially said he couldn't see me and had to keep looking around to check I was still there. It was some time before the real meaning of his comments started to sink in. So after that first dive with the buddy line it wasn't really a compliment at all, whether it was meant that way or not. It was an indication of my bad buddy skills. The reality - my buddy regularly did not know where I was. My perception of what I was doing was different from the reality from my buddies perspective.
Fast forward another 150 or so dives, Norm now has a new camera, housing and strobes, and a tendency to wander off following fish or whatever, no problem I have adapted and followed him and stayed as a buddy, because we are really good friends. But I have realised another thing, when I dive with Norm these days I don't take my own camera, we would definitely end up separated - I have not approached him about this, or told him that this is at least mildly annoying and that I feel he is unaware of what I am doing or where I am.
So I can see a real need for a conversation to take place between us, we don't dive together every week anymore - job moves mean we can't, but when we do we fall into a comfortable routine, however we have never addressed this issue of buddy expectations.
How will I approach it? - I am not sure, perhaps over a pint and a sensitive discussion. - Phil
Fast forward another 150 or so dives, Norm now has a new camera, housing and strobes, and a tendency to wander off following fish or whatever, no problem I have adapted and followed him and stayed as a buddy, because we are really good friends. But I have realised another thing, when I dive with Norm these days I don't take my own camera, we would definitely end up separated - I have not approached him about this, or told him that this is at least mildly annoying and that I feel he is unaware of what I am doing or where I am.
So I can see a real need for a conversation to take place between us, we don't dive together every week anymore - job moves mean we can't, but when we do we fall into a comfortable routine, however we have never addressed this issue of buddy expectations.
How will I approach it? - I am not sure, perhaps over a pint and a sensitive discussion. - Phil
I posted the original questions and then sat and thought about it for a while - two things came to mind.
First when I came back to diving I thought I was a good buddy, on refection I am sure I was not. When I re-trained buddy diving was stressed, repeatedly, and I 'knew' the importance of it.
Sadly I don't actually think that what good buddy diving "looked like" was really explained to me. Or else in fairness to my instructors, it may have been, but the reality never sunk in with everything else I was trying to learn and so on.
So for my first dives I stayed close to my buddy, slightly behind them where I could see them and follow like a puppy, they were more experienced after all, and I didn't stray off to look or follow anything or anyone else.
I remember a quarry dive, one of my first Drysuit dives, I'd got about 20-30 warm water dives, but very little cold water experience, poor visibility 3-4 foot only, so the chap I was with wanted to use a buddy line, no problem we used it and I sat just behind him as I had fallen into the habit of doing. Afterwards he paid me a compliment - or so I thought at the time - he said "most of the time I didn't even know you were there, you never pulled against the line once". Go me - perfect buoyancy and no problems staying close !
I got a shock then when I got my first (and most instructive) regular dive buddy/mentor - Thanks Norm, a few years older than me, neither of us are young, an ex cave diver (Florida search and rescue team in the 80's and 90's I think) photo's and tales of himself diving with people like Sheck Exley and so on, Norm just radiates experience and competence. After our second or third dive he told me he didn't like my buddy skills - he was always having to look around for me as he didn't know here I was.
This actually upset me a bit, I was a good buddy !, and I defended myself and said I was always there, just behind him, he agreed - but crucially said he couldn't see me and had to keep looking around to check I was still there. It was some time before the real meaning of his comments started to sink in. So after that first dive with the buddy line it wasn't really a compliment at all, whether it was meant that way or not. It was an indication of my bad buddy skills. The reality - my buddy regularly did not know where I was. My perception of what I was doing was different from the reality from my buddies perspective.
Fast forward another 150 or so dives, Norm now has a new camera, housing and strobes, and a tendency to wander off following fish or whatever, no problem I have adapted and followed him and stayed as a buddy, because we are really good friends. But I have realised another thing, when I dive with Norm these days I don't take my own camera, we would definitely end up separated - I have not approached him about this, or told him that this is at least mildly annoying and that I feel he is unaware of what I am doing or where I am.
So I can see a real need for a conversation to take place between us, we don't dive together every week anymore - job moves mean we can't, but when we do we fall into a comfortable routine, however we have never addressed this issue of buddy expectations.
How will I approach it? - I am not sure, perhaps over a pint and a sensitive discussion. - Phil