New BP/W: Halycon or DSS?

[Tortuga68]

Since as somone mentioned your wing isn't anywhere near fully inflated during the dive, the air will go to the high point, depending on your trim - if you're head down, the air will be at the bottom of the wing, or vice versa; so the shape of the wing isn't very relevant

 

[fnfalman]

I have items from both Halcyon, Dive Rite, and Oxcheq. I mix and match for what works best for me.

I've seen a rig that was an H backplate & oval wing coupled with Dive Rite Transplate harness.

Whatever works for you, I say.

 

[Kern]

Since as somone mentioned your wing isn't anywhere near fully inflated during the dive, the air will go to the high point, depending on your trim - if you're head down, the air will be at the bottom of the wing, or vice versa; so the shape of the wing isn't very relevant

I adjust my trim for horizontal. I may not be as anal about horizontality in my diving as many, but it's still the predominant position I find myself in during most dives.

As you say, gas will rise to the highest part of the wing. So the shape of the wing is very relevant. If the pontoons are wider at the top of the wing, this will be the highest part of the wing when horizontal, this is where the gas will go, & you will have more lift at that end. If the wing is wider at the bottom, then that's where the most lift will be. If the pontoons are parallel the lift will be evenly distributed throughout the length of the pontoons.

 

[Scott L]

A lot of people look at Hog harnesses and think they'll be hard to get out of, and if they aren't adjusted properly, they can be. If properly adjusted, it's not so. I was out of my harness in about 10 seconds on the day we got blown off and had to be picked up by RIB (see my Near Misses thread).

If you need to get somebody out of harness in a hurry, those sawed off steak knives, when wielded with adrenaline, make short work of webbing. Unfortunately, I know this.

This cutting device used by the military & public safety departments will slice through kevlar and thus webbing like warm butter. Comes with a quality sheath as well...

7 Details | Benchmade

 

[vladimir]

This cutting device used by the military & public safety departments will slice through kevlar and thus webbing like warm butter. Comes with a quality sheath as well...

7 Details | Benchmade

Essentially a Z-knife, but cooler. I have to have one.

 

[pjones]

I'm quite new to the scene too and recently got a BP/W set up for myself and the fiance. I went with the Freedom Plate and Mach IV wing, The fiance went with the Infinity setup. Both of us got 40 lb wings because we do cold water diving in dry suits. I must say that I am very glad that we went with the 40 lb wings instead of the 30 lb wings. The LDS very strongly suggested a 40 lb wing if using a drysuit in cold water.

Just something to consider...

 

[Scott L]

Essentially a Z-knife, but cooler. I have to have one.

Courtesy of Compudude on TDS last year. Make sure to select the marine grade model.

 

[pjones]

Now it's padding, plastic butt strap adjustments, tails on dump valves. Either padi rubbed off on them or they're getting soft.

I understand the danger of having the tails on the dump valves because they could get caught on things, however, I can't see how having padding on a back plate could be bad in any way. Its only a quarter inch thick and it increases comfort for people wearing minimal exposure protection. If you were to wear a dry suit or wet suit then the padding attached to the back plate would come right off and the tank would be no further from your back than if you were to be in a rash guard and have the padding on. For those who don't care about the extra quarter inch, they could just leave the padding on full time.

My fiance has the Infinity and there is no plastic butt strap adjustment anywhere in sight. Thats how we got it, factory configured and straight from the LDS.

Just for the record, Although you haven't mentioned anything of it, (I wondered about this before I physically saw one in person) The Infinity back plate does have a plastic plate that sits behind the metal BP. The webbing strings through both the plastic and metal plates. The only purpose for the plastic is to provide a smooth rounded bend for the waist strap to slide through. If the plastic were to somehow fail and break then dislodge from under the webbing, it would still be strung through the metal BP and cause no danger to the diver. (although your waist strap may be lengthened by 1/2 inch)

I had read about the Infinity on Scuba Board before I went to the LDS to see it first hand and went into the store thinking the Infinity was out to kill me, I left the store wondering if anybody had actually taken the time to physically see the system in person before posting comments about it. I say this because it uses the same HOG single piece harness with the same D-Rings and the same back plate. All they added was a piece of padding that is thin enough to simulate a piece of neoprene for divers who are not wearing any, as well as a D-Ring that slides on the waist belt to make it easier to remove the harness by simply pulling the shoulder strap. This could even be argued to be a safety feature because now a diver can remove the BCD from a victim without having to cut the straps. Of the items mentioned, Padded back is behind you, Sliding D-Ring is out of the way and unobtrusive, I would have a hard time calling this Cluttered.
*Sorry* I forgot about the shoulder pads. These are above the shoulder D-Rings and don't dangle or stick out so they are also unobtrusive. Although I would be hard pressed to call it cluttered they do stay in place with velcro straps and tabs. The velcro could start to fail over time with use but again it would not create any danger to a diver that I can see.

Maybe a tech diver or someone with more experience would be able to see problems with these components. If there is something that I am not seeing I would sure like to hear about it.

 

[Kern]

It's a matter of semantics I suppose. You look at the photo above & see a normal everyday type BCD. Padding, integrated weight pockets, bolt on cinch & the bits to attach can lights & "d" ring to waist belt for the adjusting harness etc.

Someone who has been diving a hog set up, looks at it, but can't see the rig for the clutter.

I have no problem with the clutter. I don't want it, but if you do, use it & be happy. I won't call it a hog rig, but you can if you like.

 

[DiverLaura]

kern, I felt the same way the first two times I saw it... "what kind of gimmick is this" I was tremendously skeptical.

i ate my words.

the following is a bit of a soapbox rant, and i apologize ahead of time

Having dove it, i won't go back to my old harness. it is in fact a nicer option for the majority of divers (myself included) who swap back and forth between suit and undergarments. It is much more comfortable to actually have a harness that fits as opposed to doing what i'd do half the time and be lazy (or just plain forget which undergarment i'd used on the previous dive) and not adjust my harness accordingly. then i'd dive with a harness that was either too tight or too loose.

you are not changing the length of shoulder straps that work for you to trim your tanks out, you can actually set 'stops' that will keep it from getting any smaller than "X" but you can get into and out of ridiculously easier on a rocking boat or even in the water when diving off of small boats etc. In an emergency situation, I'd still likely cut the victims harness, but the cinch will allow ME to get out of my harness in the blink of an eye.

you don't have to struggle to get in and out of it at all. in fact, getting in and out is a 'cinch'. from that point of view alone, i'd say this is dramatic improvement over an existing design. it will help protect shoulders and backs. it will allow people who shunned the single webbing design due or wore it way too loose to accommodate their flexibility.

it is also great when you swap between different tanks. i use my double HP102's for the majority of my OC dives, but on the occasion that i use a set of double 72's its nice to be able to adjust the trim (by adjusting the shoulder straps) easily. It again means i'll dive them correctly as opposed to just say 'what the heck' and dive untrimmed kit.

For women they are nice because for some of us, finding the balance between a trimmed out system and shoulder straps that will stay ON our shoulders, is a fine line. You are able to fine tune this, in the water, without having to walk up the beach, take your kit off, do the hard tug of the wet webbing to get it to slide through the backplate/triglide and hope you got it closer and didn't overshoot.

You don't have to use it with the pads. you don't have to use it with the weight pouches... heck, you don't have to use it at all... but posting opinions based on looks alone, it this case, is truly a case of judging a book by it's cover.

and yes, Halcyon IS trying to find some middle ground, the ARE trying to offer top notch gear that will be more comfortable to use by the newer diver (or diver new to harness bcd's) without compromising the basic premise. Why should tech divers be the only ones to use BP/W systems. H has made a kit here that actually appeals to a new diver that would generally be intimidated by the utilitarian single webbing rigged backplate.

I love the fact that a tech diving mfg would take off the blinders and bother trying to make something that would appeal to a larger audience. I believe that a good fitting single length of webbing style IS a better way to go (I've had it happen to me, and watched shoulder clips get broken and hose you out of a 500.00 dive weekend) and one of my friends described the shoulder clips giving way on a set of dubs that was being hoisted out of the water in antarctica with a crane. that put an end to that divers TREMENDOUSLY expensive dive trip. I hope they got at least one dive with the bergs.

fwiw, the 'padding' is actually a storage pack, just a snazzier one..

okay... stepping down now