Open letter to boat dive masters

[Wookie]

and final question is if I feel that the service or performance of that DM is subpar am i obligated to tip him

Oh, is this about tipping? I thought it was about the DM doing his job to the best of his ability. If it's about tipping, tip, don't tip, whatever makes you feel good. There is no tipping law, the Captain doesn't add a gratuity to your bill, and you don't have to explain your actions to anyone.

I thought it was about folks touching your gear.....

 

[tomfcrist]

Herb, what about this DM made you decide he was uninformed or unqualified? How was he grossly negligent in his duties? Do you not agree to abide by the rules of the DM and Captain when you pay for the charter? You need to take into account that this is a frivolous, sue happy world we live in......if you don't like the fact that the DM and captain are doing what they feel keeps themselves from getting sued, simply dive on your own boat from now on.
This thread didn't have to be 11 pages, and quite frankly didn't have to be started at all. If you don't like getting input from the many experienced dive professionals on this board, then don't post your rants on a public forum.

 

[vincent54]

Reading through some of the posts makes me think diving on a charter is rife with confrontation. I don't have a problem if the DM fettles with my gear. I'll double check and be better for it. I have always had good experiences on dive boats, and feel being a guest of the boat, one should abide by their rules. Tipping is good etiquette, and shouldn't be punitive if you feel you had a bad day. A great day warrants a great tip. Happy New Year

 

[Herb-alaska]

Oh, is this about tipping? I thought it was about the DM doing his job to the best of his ability. If it's about tipping, tip, don't tip, whatever makes you feel good. There is no tipping law, the Captain doesn't add a gratuity to your bill, and you don't have to explain your actions to anyone.

I thought it was about folks touching your gear.....

Ah frank it is not about tipping it is just that not tipping was the way that I demonstrated my irritation when i asked him to leave the gear alone he refused so I chose to withhold the tip rather than get in his face and if I remember correctly you were the first one to call me a cheap SOB that cheated the hard working DM Because i took this approach. I tip and appreciate the opportunity to show my appreciation when I have appreciation but I am the quiet customer that just goes away mad rather than makes a stink. And you are right I will not visit this shop again

The second part is do I have the right to expect a level of professionalism from the DM that would allow me to tip.


But I think that we have run full circle and so it is time to say that meaningful discourse has ended and it is time to disagree . From your website it appears that i would have no problem with your boat crew and would have walked away very happy
And I think that if you had been there you may have been in his face about it all but then we are different people. Maybe the issue is centered around where we call home for diving. In my area we don't get many tourist divers an those that come normally have a clue so we are less inclined to babysit especially when asked not to as apposed to the south were you get a lot of once a year folks that need reminders which way the regulator attaches to the tank. Not bad just different with different needs.

 

[JS1scuba]

Seven Breaths Guarantees Your Air Is On


1. When you go on a dive boat that services single tank divers the DM, Deck Hand, Captain, Instructor, Tank Valve Turner will check your valve is on before you jump in the water. Let him/her do his job. The first few times they do it you are thankful, then after you become an expert (AOW or more certs) you may start to resent it, then once you become a seasoned diver you will appreciate it.

2. When you go on a dive boat that services technical divers, ask ahead of time if the DM, Deck Hand, Captain, Instructor, Tank Valve Turner are fully familiar with your manifold system. If so then Let him/her do his job. (f not take a moment to simply show them what you like) The first few times they do it you are thankful, then after you become an expert (AOW or more certs) you may start to resent it, then once you become a seasoned diver you will appreciate it.

3. and this is the BIG one ......... even if you have adhered to # 1 or # 2 you should do this. Follow carefully as this guarantees regardless of your size, your breathing capacity, or the length of your hose (up to 7 foot) that as the end of this simple exercise you will know without a shadow of a doubt if your PRIMARY regulator is ON or OFF

(practice this at home)

A. Take a pause before standing up and jumping in the water.
B. Put regulator in your mouth. (DO NOT PRESS PURGE BUTTON )
C. Pick up Pressure Gauge and look at it.
D. Take 7 FULL inhalations off that regulator. (takes 10 seconds)

IF you still have air/gas on 7th inhale and the needle on the SPG does not move -- VALVE IS OPEN GO DIVE

IF you seem to have run out of something to inhale on before the 7th inhale and the needle moves -- VALVE IS CLOSED -- STOP and OPEN IT and REPEAT EXERCISE.

It's not 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 ....... it's 7.

In the mid 1990'sNYC Wreck Diver Tony Smith died because his tank valves were closed as he did a back roll off the Atlantis V in North Carolina. He sank to the bottom with his lungs being crushed and his face mask sucked into his face because he was overweighted and his AIR was not ON. He was found at the end of the dive in 145 feet of water when the mate went in to untie the anchor line from the wreck. Tony was a friend of mine. Since that time I have performed the above process on EVERY dive I have done, regardless of where, pool, lake, ocean, cave etc. Fortunately the few times I was rushed or distracted on the deck I was able to catch the error. Every diver I train learns this, every diver I meet with gets to see it /hear it, some ask and I will explain.

So, you do your part by showing crew that you know what you are doing and also let the qualified crew "check your valves" if that makes them happy. You can then take another 10 seconds of precious dive time and do the exercise AGAIN then there is NO question in your mind at to whether or not YOUR air is on.

Cheers

 

[Herb-alaska]

Herb, what about this DM made you decide he was uninformed or unqualified? How was he grossly negligent in his duties? Do you not agree to abide by the rules of the DM and Captain when you pay for the charter? You need to take into account that this is a frivolous, sue happy world we live in......if you don't like the fact that the DM and captain are doing what they feel keeps themselves from getting sued, simply dive on your own boat from now on.
This thread didn't have to be 11 pages, and quite frankly didn't have to be started at all. If you don't like getting input from the many experienced dive professionals on this board, then don't post your rants on a public forum.

Tom it was posted simply to say hey DMs sometimes people really don't appreciate extra attention when they ask not to be. What happened was stated but the summary is
he could not operate his boat ( launch)
he did not recognize widely accepted gear ( side mount and under arm hose routing)
he talked inordinately about being a DM in a boastful manner
i just did not get warm fuzzies and simply did not want him messing with my rig.
I asked him not to and he refused to stop.

it was not confrontational i just was hoping to say hey guys some of us don't appreciate all of your "help" and when we don't appreciate something we may not be inclined to tip

i asked your opinion when the general consensus of the thread was that I was a cheap SOB because I did not tip.

 

[Wookie]

Ah frank it is not about tipping it is just that not tipping was the way that I demonstrated my irritation when i asked him to leave the gear alone he refused so I chose to withhold the tip rather than get in his face and if I remember correctly you were the first one to call me a cheap SOB that cheated the hard working DM Because i took this approach. I tip and appreciate the opportunity to show my appreciation when I have appreciation but I am the quiet customer that just goes away mad rather than makes a stink. And you are right I will not visit this shop again

The second part is do I have the right to expect a level of professionalism from the DM that would allow me to tip.


But I think that we have run full circle and so it is time to say that meaningful discourse has ended and it is time to disagree . From your website it appears that i would have no problem with your boat crew and would have walked away very happy
And I think that if you had been there you may have been in his face about it all but then we are different people. Maybe the issue is centered around where we call home for diving. In my area we don't get many tourist divers an those that come normally have a clue so we are less inclined to babysit especially when asked not to as apposed to the south were you get a lot of once a year folks that need reminders which way the regulator attaches to the tank. Not bad just different with different needs.

Actually, I used the word "Stiffed", because if you don't leave a tip, that's what it is called. I would never and have never used the term "Cheap SOB" as I've made it very clear on this board that we deal with all cultures and all different levels of divers and some don't tip because they are not culturally conditioned to, and some don't tip because they don't know that they are expected to, and some don't tip because they didn't agree with the level of service that they received. I happened to be the first person who responded to the thread, and it seems that you might have taken offense to my post, although none was intended. If you go back and read the post, with the exception of the word "Stiffed", I made no mention whatsoever of the fact you didn't tip, my only comments were those justifying why the DM did what he did. In subsequent posts I backed off my stance and told you that we would respect your wishes and not fiddle with your knobs. I would never do that to get a "tip", but only after I saw that you were a competent diver. Tipping is such a minor part of this business, and folks make such a big deal of it.

That's why I wonder if it's a post about tipping....?

 

[tomfcrist]

I don't think you are cheap.... If you feel that no tip was warranted than by all means don't tip.
If everything you said is true, you should have said something right then and there. I would have gladly been confrontational about it......

 

[vincent54]

Never leave a dive mad. Smile and have fun. Think about how fortunate you were to go under water, breath and swim around, and come back in one piece. 100 years ago it was pure fantasy. Still in awe we went to the moon. By the way, I like the DM checking for me. I've jumped in without turning my air on and it is a bit embarrassing trying to turn your own air back on while spinning in death circles. Live and learn..

 

[Akimbo]

Seven Breaths Guarantees Your Air Is On…

As Nemrod reminded me in another post, taking one breath and checking that your SPG doesn’t drop also guarantees the valve is on, at least partially.

…Over the years, I have had my air checked back OFF several times. But, I usually take a sip of air before jumping in while watching the SPG…

Regardless of the number of breaths, watching the SPG is also an indicator that the cylinder valve isn’t just slightly cracked. Neither guarantees the valve is completely open, which has no effect until you drop to under about 200 PSI anyway.

It also depends on the rig. A regulator with a combo octo/BC filler and a short primary hose will breathe down in a couple of breaths. An octo, 7' primary hose, wing, and drysuit hose takes more. In both cases, breathing from your regulator before jumping overboard checks the entire gas supply system and not just valve position that is the most common DM check.