Tipping dive master

[Lorenzoid]

Back when i was teaching around the Yucatan, one of the final things I used to cover with students (extra emphasis for the Euro divers!), was the importance of tipping the boat crews.
I would bring up their usual objections, (that "tipping wasn't customary back in Germany", or where-ever), then I would point out that this isn't Germany (where the same $55 dive would've cost them $200!), that this is the 3rd world, and these boat crews are trying to support families on very little money, and tipping is customary in much of the world, and in much of the dive business, so they're expected to follow suit, (unless, of course, the crew somehow screws the pooch and gives them good reason not to). . . .

I’m not sure I follow the logic. Tipping as we know it today was not customary in the “3rd world” or anywhere else outside of the USA until Americans introduced the custom.

Also, I believe the tipping for the purpose of helping support families conflates the original purpose of tipping—to reward service that’s above and beyond what their wages are supposed to be for—with charity. If I want to help the local people who have a difficult time getting by, I give to a charity or try to do something along those lines. If I want to reward a boat crew whose efforts to make my trip memorable went above and beyond what was expected of them by their employer, I tip them.

 

[Mark IV]

I'm not sure I follow your "logic". I simply tried to answer the OP with my understanding of the subject, according to my experience (admittedly, almost exclusively in the western Caribbean).
I wasn't suggesting anyone try and put their divemaster's kid through college with their tips, I was just pointing out the reality that these guys usually got paid very little, and were counting heavily on the added income provided by tips. Their regular pay, plus whatever tips they may get, still don't amount to much, given the demands of their job (which usually include a couple extra hours before and after the actual dive trip, that the customers don't see).
And, regardless of who introduced tipping to the world, as you point out, it now exists, for better or worse. So, you can sit on your wallet, and give them lectures on economics and your personal sense of what's appropriate, or you can deal with the financial and customary reality, and toss them a few bucks, for merely "doing their job".

 

[Lorenzoid]

I don’t “sit on my wallet.” In the US, I tip according to our American custom. But I try to avoid exporting our custom, which can result in the sort of interaction you described with your European clients who apparently didn’t expect to see the American custom in the western Caribbean. I give generously for charitable purposes. I try to adhere to what the tradition is wherever I am. For example, when I dived in Fiji, I brought lots of clothes and needed items for the villagers, as we were advised is much appreciated.

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

or start a movement to have divemasters paid a proper living wage and stop having everyone rely on tips...

I still haven't ever seen a straight answer on this board for 'how much do divemasters earn a day/week/year'

 

[Mark IV]

or start a movement to have divemasters paid a proper living wage and stop having everyone rely on tips...

You're kidding, right ?? Maybe we should just hold a candlelight vigil,and think 'positive' thoughts . That'll have as much impact.

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

of course i am, but it goes back to the point about the bleeding heart stuff about DMs needing tips to live. We have and do hash through this time and time again on this board and noone's opinion ever really changes either way. But i never met a DM who couldn't likely get another job other than being a DM and i know DMs very well across the carribbean, belize etc. and they don't need tips to live and tyhey have never had a pay cut because the industry is getting too competative etc. so any equation to why people on minimum wage in the service industry are tipped and how that should translate to this industry is just balls in my opinion. I just have no time for the 'i don't want to pay my employees a proper wage, so i expect you to do it for me'

A DM on the vortex is no single mother 45 year old waitress who is borderline illiterate in denny's in Omaha (who actually needs tips to live) blah, blah, blah.

If you want to tip anyone for anything, go crazy. it's your money. Hell, i applaud you for it and i modestly tip DM's on liveboards, diveops etc 'just because'... but i have zero negative opinions about anyone who decides not to tip. i have the story about the old dude who was on the aggressor with me who's kids had paid for him to come and the other guy made him feel like crap because he couldn't afford a 20% tip and he hadn't realized it was expected etc.etc.

look, i know i'm in the minority because i would be happy to pay more for my diving so that DM's etc were paid properly ( if they aren't) and i do prefer to dive with local divers as opposed to DM's on a '2 year sabbatical on my dad's money in indonesia willing to work for free' etc.

I just can't abide by any attitude that tips are mandetory in 'this' industry or that anyone who decides not to tip is practicing poor form...

i'm likely waaaaay of topic from the OP...i'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[TMHeimer]

of course i am, but it goes back to the point about the bleeding heart stuff about DMs needing tips to live. We have and do hash through this time and time again on this board and noone's opinion ever really changes either way. But i never met a DM who couldn't likely get another job other than being a DM and i know DMs very well across the carribbean, belize etc. and they don't need tips to live and tyhey have never had a pay cut because the industry is getting too competative etc. so any equation to why people on minimum wage in the service industry are tipped and how that should translate to this industry is just balls in my opinion. I just have no time for the 'i don't want to pay my employees a proper wage, so i expect you to do it for me'

A DM on the vortex is no single mother 45 year old waitress who is borderline illiterate in denny's in Omaha (who actually needs tips to live) blah, blah, blah.

If you want to tip anyone for anything, go crazy. it's your money. Hell, i applaud you for it and i modestly tip DM's on liveboards, diveops etc 'just because'... but i have zero negative opinions about anyone who decides not to tip. i have the story about the old dude who was on the aggressor with me who's kids had paid for him to come and the other guy made him feel like crap because he couldn't afford a 20% tip and he hadn't realized it was expected etc.etc.

look, i know i'm in the minority because i would be happy to pay more for my diving so that DM's etc were paid properly ( if they aren't) and i do prefer to dive with local divers as opposed to DM's on a '2 year sabbatical on my dad's money in indonesia willing to work for free' etc.

I just can't abide by any attitude that tips are mandetory in 'this' industry or that anyone who decides not to tip is practicing poor form...

i'm likely waaaaay of topic from the OP...i'll get off my soapbox now.

I agree with all of that. You also made a point about DMs getting a "proper" wage. As you mentioned, this gets debated every so often on the Board, and my usual reply is that they may very well get a proper wage if the 95% of DMs that work for free/tips/shop perks would STOP DOING THAT. None of this "I just love diving, helping other people enjoy it, and I want to give something back" stuff. DMs wouldn't even have to unionize. At least for assisting with courses, they would have to be paid--unless class sizes were very small, or agencies raised the numbers allowed per one instructor--ie. change their standards.

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

I honestly think we will get to the stage before too long where it will be frowned upon to dive with 'Tourist DMs' ...controversial perhaps...but if you aren't holding a passport of the country i'm diving in,, i'm not that keen on diving with you...

 

[Ayisha]

...i have the story about the old dude who was on the aggressor with me who's kids had paid for him to come and the other guy made him feel like crap because he couldn't afford a 20% tip and he hadn't realized it was expected etc.etc...

I find that 20% "expected" tip really high. For example, let's say an Aggressor liveaboard costs $3000 US, so the expected tip is $600 US per customer. So with 18 passengers, the crew gets $10,800 US for a week divided by 7 crew members on top of their salary. That's quite a lot...

 

[Ministryofgiraffes]

Exactemundo Ayisha...and on the aggressor the main guys usually do 8-12 weeks on and 4 weeks off...and that's for the cheaper trips with smaller boats.

6-8k galapagos with 24 divers and a week turnaround with one month in drydock?