Can you reach your tank knob to turn it on?

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catherine96821:
Okay, Lamont, I see how that could happen.

I think my valve (since I do not do valve drills) is always the LAST thing I do. In other words, I would not walk away from my tank, return and not repeat that step. If anyone touches it except for a few known entities...same thing.

Yup, now before I get into my straps, I double-check my valves.

For diving doubles there's a better reason to reach your valves, which is to turn it off if you've got a gas loss situation from a particular post or to isolate. For recreational OW divers, this is still a good skill, and can lead to more elegant solution of a free-flow at depth (OOA buddy, shut down valve, open valve, go back on your reg) rather than just letting your tank drain.
 
is that where you feather the valve? yea....then I should learn that. Might be more practical than the pony.
 
You mean we went through that entire pony bottle thread and you're going to feather instead? *sigh* I was at the pool today and did valve shut downs on a single tank and if the situation arose where I had to feather, I think I would partially remove the BC and have the valve facing me.
 
ChillyWaters, I have noticed you mention several times in this thread orally inflating the BC if you find that your tank valve is off.

This could be taken two different ways. One way is to orally inflate your BC AFTER you get back to the surface, with the great big dive tank in the sky to recharge your lungs from. The other way is orally inflating your BC at depth. For rather obvious reasons, I wouldn't reccomend this.
 
pilot fish:
You've pretty much covered it but I have one question that occured to me as I was reading your post- following your scenario: since we have ONLY seconds to make the right choice, you really, I mean, REALLY, want to make the right one. At the moment you realize your air is off, you are sucking on that reg and nothing is coming out, do you look to see where your buddy is and head for him, or do you start the reach for your tank and not even waste time trying to find him/her?

First, good job in implementing an easy to use and useful tool to increase your diving safety.

Thanks in part to preparation, and luck, I have not experienced the scenario I mentioned. In the event I did while buddy diving, I would immediately get one hand on the valve and move towards/reach for buddy's reg. If I have access to buddy's reg while I'm still turning the valve and not getting a good breath, I would switch to buddy's reg.to start breathing properly and then finish opening valve. If I need to look around to find buddy, this will be done while turning valve. Whether I start heading towards him or the surface as I turn valve depends on distance, his direction and speed of movement. As you can see, introducing a buddy opens it up to a much wider range of possibilities because of all the variables a buddy brings to the equation. Basically, if buddy can be trusted, is right there next to you, it's just as easy to have him donate a fully operating reg.

There's a lot more than has been discussed here regarding long hose or standard rec hose configuration and procedures, too. There's been many threads on this topic, some better than others, that you may want to research to get a better understanding of their strengths and weaknesses, also about the Air2.

One thing not mentioned yet, since we have been operating on a very reliable assumption due to some of the scenarios discussed so far, is actual problem identification. A quick glance at the pressure gauge at the first sign of increased work of breathing can offer
further confirmation.

There's a lot more than has been discussed here regarding long hose or standard rec hose configuration and procedures. There's been many threads on this topic, some better than others, that you may want to research to get a better understanding of their strengths and weaknesses, also about the Air2

On another topic, in true somewhat typical discussion form, when someone provides a sound argument which others can not overcome with reason, the topic is shifted to argue other scenarios, allegations are made about the other's abilities and wisdom, and so forth. It does make for a lively discussion.

Naturally if you just jumped in, are properly weighted, and breathing often, one should quickly recognize the problem just beneath surface and swim up. Consider that this is not always the case. Lamont gave a real life example. It's possible for some to use a controlled long slow exhale taking them to depth with increasing speed.

The scenario was postulated as such to address certain issues with a degree of precision. Since learning is a process not a destination, I try to keep an open mind. I would really want to hear arguments disproving the conclusions made in that example. I believe the priorities in terms of needs and available options lead to an optimum corrective action that will hold true under such conditions for divers with the ability to implement them, which excludes other conditions, and those for whom the ideal course of action does not prove advantageous due to personal idiosyncrasies. I can understand others using an inferior corrective option, due to prioritizing other considerations beyond the scope postulated. You can't optimize for everything. One often comes at the expense of another. But I do think its critical to understand the fact that at times we may depend on inferior tools in some situations. Through this recognition we are afforded the option and the chance to continually seek improvement.

The most troubling thing I see is the number of replies claiming that: Since I always check my gear. I breath before I descend. I always check my guage as I breath my reg. No one touches my gear. And other such good practices - being used in a nonsensical way in an attempt to prove a point it does not support.

Within the context of the discussion here, the valve manipulation tool is a CORRECTIVE tool. There is a reason for such tools. If you think that it can't happen to you, because ________ . You need to get REAL.
 
TheRedHead:
You mean we went through that entire pony bottle thread and you're going to feather instead? *sigh* I was at the pool today and did valve shut downs on a single tank and if the situation arose where I had to feather, I think I would partially remove the BC and have the valve facing me.


yes, I am getting one before Bali...money tight at the moment. it will be about three hundred and I need the dome port first. But I am convinced...dennis got his. I am letting him work the bugs out. I think I like the idea of mounting it upside down. It is going to be a big pain. All the boats I dive have tanks all set up...it means I will have to get my own fills, run the very considerable risk of driving with it in my car...it is not an attractive option.
 
Scuba, yes, you do all those checks before you splash to ensure your gear is right, air on, etc. I'm a stickler for checking my air since I've had to swim over on the surface and turn the air on for an experienced diver and thought, damn, that could be me. That has caused me to check my air, sometimes several times. Still, knowing all that, I realize anything can happen that may cause you to enter the water with tank off, or partially on, so I'd like to be prepared, as much as possible, to fix that problem. Being able to, and practicing, reaching your tank knob seems a good and fast way to correct the problem, regardless of why it is off.

Since split decisions uw are literally the difference between life and death, you want to make the right one so you can dive another day. You really only have seconds to choose, so having the right order of reactions is crucial. If that were to happen to me I think I would react in this fashion: immeadiately drop weights, look at gage, begin reach [I have to work out what type of reach to use first] look for another diver close by, all the while finning up. I know I might have left something out, or might have order of reactions wrong, but that is what I think I'd do.

Let me say, none of this will be necessary if you do the correct checks at the surface, but we all know how things can happen.
 
catherine96821:
yes, I am getting one before Bali...money tight at the moment. it will be about three hundred and I need the dome port first. But I am convinced...dennis got his. I am letting him work the bugs out. I think I like the idea of mounting it upside down. It is going to be a big pain. All the boats I dive have tanks all set up...it means I will have to get my own fills, run the very considerable risk of driving with it in my car...it is not an attractive option.

Catherine, are you talking about a new pony bottle, what type and size?, a bc, trimix, or a poodle ?
 

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