Battle of BCs (Another one)

[SparticleBrane]

Well, like I said earlier.. I did hours of research before I made my purchase and the Ranger fits me well for my diving skills. As I advance and progress, I know I can adapt the ranger (and convert to a BP/W later on in time). For now, it does what I need it to do.

One nice thing about scuba gear is that it tends to retain some value when you sell it.

Ive seen that website and have it bookmarked. I dont have all that gear. I barely have the minimal stuff to even be diving. Heck, I just got certified back in Sept.

Slowly acquire gear -- don't get too caught up in buying gear that you forget to dive once in awhile.

I picked up the OW fast and ive already started practicing on the "tech" skills. Mainly now, im trying to zero in my trim. Im still a little bottom heavy because I have lean muscular legs. Even after shifting weight around on my BC, I think ill need to purchase a farmer john wetsuit.

Note that trim isn't 'just' a tech skill -- good trim and buoyancy are skills that all divers should have. Preferably you should look like this in the water.

Also, don't try to find a equipment solution to a technique issue. As a general rule, working on trim means refining your technique -- not adding trim weights here and there to 'counteract' how you are in the water. Trim is about technique, not weighting.

Ill be getting my Nitrox certification in about 2 weeks, and Ill be going for my AOW in mid april. Then after I get comfortable and the task load is 2nd nature, ill be going for cave training so I can go play around in Ginnie Springs in northern FL. Im only 22 years old, so I hope to keep diving throughout my lifetime and get better as I age.

Sorry for coming off like a dick, but this hobby isnt cheap. And when you are a college student, you just dont have the money to throw around to buy new gear. I just cant stand it with people say "BUY THIS" and then just ride it to no end.

Yes, I know the a BP/W setup is minimalist and reduces drag and is very streamlined. But thats not what I wanted to start off with.

I am also a 22 year old college student. All you have to do is save money and find good deals online for used gear. Then again I've been acquiring gear for almost 3 years, so I suppose I do have a slight advantage.


Good luck and safe diving.

 

[marchand]

Also, don't try to find a equipment solution to a technique issue. As a general rule, working on trim means refining your technique -- not adding trim weights here and there to 'counteract' how you are in the water. Trim is about technique, not weighting.

Funny, I thought that good trim was being able to hold a horizontal position without having to do anything. If you have to use a "technique" to hold a horizontal position then you need to move some weight around.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Perhaps you misunderstood me.

I'm defining "technique" in this instance as the ability to do exactly what you described -- remain horizontal, comfortably, relaxed, without doing anything to sustain the position. Plus the ability to hold this position while task loaded.

"Bad technique", again for this particular example...would be pretty much anything else. Granted there are a few extenuating circumstances -- following the contours of a cave, having to quickly go slightly head's up to get air out of your drysuit feet, etc.


The only time I can see 'moving weight' is if you're using short doubles (95s or 119s come to mind) and they are putting you a bit head down, or perhaps the opposite in extreme circumstances. I can see moving the tank bands around to help, but in that instance you probably don't have any other "weight" that you can move.

 

[marchand]

But if you aren't doing anything how can it be technique?

I think you are combining buoyancy and trim into your definition of trim. I know that proper buoyancy control is all about technique, but trim is all about having the weight distributed so that you don't have to do anything to stay horizontal.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Trim is NOT about weight distribution (with the possible exception of a backplate/tanks). You don't need to play the "ok I have 1 pound on my left but I usually roll to my left so I need 2 pounds on my right to compensate" game...

Holding your knees up so they don't drop, having to compensate for small currents to keep yourself horizontal/in the same position -- it all goes into the technique of maintaining trim.

Over time it becomes exponentially easier, to the point of not thinking about it. Even when you're not thinking about it, there's still a technique to staying in trim. How many of us think about walking while we're walking somewhere? Even so, there's still a technique to walking that doesn't involve our active consciousness.

Perhaps I'm just not the best person to describe it. I'm not normally that great at putting things like this into words.

 

[ChillyWilly]

Hello,


I just dove my new Zeagle Tech and I have to say, It was a great choice. Very confortable, the wing even though its big, it's very streamlined thanks to the elastic clips. I spent hours making it streamlined with all my gear. My position in the water is great, my feet don't float up like the did with my jacket BC. Easy to put on, easy to adjust (The tech has no cumberbund which i think is great) The fit is tight and comfortable. No tank roll. I also purchased the saddle Straps which seams nicer then the regular crotch straps, keep the strap away from my precious goodies if you know what i mean.


Anyway I'm sold on this BC. I do think that BP/W is a good choice but to me the TECH had all the options that I Wanted, some back padding, integrated weights and pockets and don't have to worry about the weights and pockets moving which I hate. Options to change configuration If i need to in the future.

Lifetime warranty !!

Great Deal !!

try one out, I think you would like it !!

You should dive what you like !! each peson likes diferent things on a BC. One D ring here one D ring there, etc...etc...

 

[marchand]

I will concede that there is some technique to maintaining trim in an environment with current, but given no current your body should naturally assume a horizontal position. If you have to "keep swimming" to maintain a horizontal position then you need to either adjust where your tanks sit on your back or move weight off of your belt and onto your shoulder straps or ankles depending on which attitude your body naturally assumes in the water. This is why sidemount divers have weights on their shoulder straps.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Most people assume a vertical position, or perhaps around 45º for some people. Then they're overweighted, without enough air in their BC (afraid of shooting to the surface because they wouldn't be able to control it if they started to rise...) so they kick to maintain their position in the water and they call it "buoyancy control" as they're destroying the bottom...yuck.


Shoulder weights? Ankle weights? What is this mess you speak of? That's just extra nonsense. Can't say I wear a weight belt either...

Trim IS NOT about moving weight around to "put you where you should be".

But, I see we won't convince each other, so we can agree to disagree.

 

[marchand]

Lets say that you are diving manifolded doubles and you naturally assume a horizontal position in the water. Because you want to go farther into the caves or in some caves all together you decide to beak down the doubles and sidemount them. Because your tanks are now sidemounted they now rest a good foot lower on your body which logically moves weight toward your feet.

Now lets look at the physics of this. In order for you to maintain a horizontal position in the water your center of buoyancy and center of gravity have to either be the same or rest on the same vertical line.

So, if you switch to sidemount you are moving your center of gravity back towards your legs. this creates a moment arm (lever) that will cause your body to go "head up." In order to move your center of gravity back to where your center of buoyancy is you either have to move your tanks back onto your back or place weights on the other side of the center of buoyancy from the center of gravity.

On the other side of the equation changing from a wetsuit to a drysuit has the potential to change your center of buoyancy again prompting a redistribution of weight to counteract the change in center of buoyancy.

Would you like some diagrams?

 

[Splitlip]

Most people assume a vertical position, or perhaps around 45º for some people. Then they're overweighted, without enough air in their BC (afraid of shooting to the surface because they wouldn't be able to control it if they started to rise...) so they kick to maintain their position in the water and they call it "buoyancy control" as they're destroying the bottom...yuck.


Shoulder weights? Ankle weights? What is this mess you speak of? That's just extra nonsense. Can't say I wear a weight belt either...

Trim IS NOT about moving weight around to "put you where you should be".

But, I see we won't convince each other, so we can agree to disagree.

I agree most divers in the water are over weighted. What I see though, is they over inflate the BC to compensate for the lead and then are held up like puppets.

If you were to remove your ss plate and put 6 additional #s on your belt, would that affect your trim? It does for me so I believe weight distribution does infact affect trim.