question for dir people

[dnj30]

here's my point(granted i am speaking from NO experience)--i can't say who i'll be diving with from dive to dive. as of now i don't have a regular diving buddy. different people are trained in different ways. my padi training taught me that in an ooa situation i take my buds octo. however with a combo unit there is no traditional octo, so if my bud is ooa he/she will be looking for something that isn't there. why not have that traditional octo lashed(velcro, breakaway, etc..) on my hip in case the ooa diver coming at me is used to going for it by instinct. i know that people will say that i should have told my buddy before the dive that in an ooa he/she should take my primary, but in a panic people will revert to instinct. so if that instinct is to go for the octo, it's there. also, all the arguments i've read against the octo/infl combo always say that the benefit of reducing the drag of an extra hose isn't worth it since an extra hose really dosen't cause a noticable difference. yet when i suggest having both(octo/infl and trad. octo) the same people say it's not a good idea because it creates unnecessary clutter. it seems the smartest set-up to me. the difference in size between a normal inflator and an octo/infl combo is very minor. and it dosen't create confusion in a crisis situation, quite the opposite, it creates options! convince me otherwise. ps---to snowbear---i know the dir answer, lose the octo/infl combo

 

[dnj30]

scott--thanks for those pictures of dir set-up. i am light years away from tek diving, but i still have questions. dir says bp/wing only, no bc's. but when i look at those pictures i don't see why i can't have the same set-up with my zeagle ranger. i can get a dual tank backplate, crotch strap, larger bladder. what is the big difference? the safety features don't change, do they? if it's just a matter of comfort, shouldn't that be up to me as long as i'm not endangering my buddy or other divers? thanks---dave

 

[Boogie711]

scott--thanks for those pictures of dir set-up. i am light years away from tek diving, but i still have questions. dir says bp/wing only, no bc's. but when i look at those pictures i don't see why i can't have the same set-up with my zeagle ranger. i can get a dual tank backplate, crotch strap, larger bladder. what is the big difference? the safety features don't change, do they? if it's just a matter of comfort, shouldn't that be up to me as long as i'm not endangering my buddy or other divers? thanks---dave

DNJ - I don't think anyone would deny that a Ranger is a very good BC. However, I think all DIR divers would argue that a backplate and wing is superior for a few reasons. Very briefly (and there are TONS of threads on this issue) it boils down to less 'excess' and therefore better streamlining and buoyancy, as well as security and comfort. In terms of it being a 'safety' issue, one can argue that a BP/wing is safer since there are no quick releases or failure points in the system. There is also a team gear familiarization issue when people dive different configurations. But that being said - a Ranger is a very nice BC. Just not DIR.

Archman - the DIR/Tech Diver thing is unfortunate, and I'm sorry to have jumped on you for that. Not only is it unfair to all the well-trained TDI/IANTD/NACD divers out there to be called something they're not, it's unfair to GUE when you cite a 'bad' example as being DIR. Incidentally, while I'm on my soapbox, the other pet peeve I have is when people refer to a bp/wing setup as "a DIR rig," since you can quite easily dive a BP/Wing and have it be a truckload away from being DIR.

 

[jonnythan]

There are a bunch of reasons you can't be DIR with a Ranger. You have a lot of plastic buckles as failure points. It's way too complicated and not streamlined. You don't have the proper number of D-rings in the right places.

The DIR system absolutely relies on having a proper bp/wing setup as the basis for the very rigid and very tested gear config. The theory is that the guys who create DIR have done thousands of extremely demanding dives and have figured out what works and what doesn't.

You don't need to be DIR to be a good, safe diver. But DIR requires the bp/wing, the long hose, the bungeed octo, etc. The system, and the procedures, and the diving are all based on the gear config, and the rest of the system wouldn't work with a Ranger.

 

[dnj30]

thanks to everyone for who took the time to answer my questions. i realize that alot of what i ask is very basic, maybe even stupid. but here in NY there's no diving to be done for a few months, so i figure i'll just gather as much wisdom as i can. thanks again---dave

 

[jonnythan]

No stupid questions at all. I'm a bit upstate from you, in Albany. I dive dry so the weather isn't an issue for me.. but when it warms up a bit we should get together for a dive. I can show you my backplate and wing, and the long hose setup. I'm not a DIR guy but I plan on taking the DIR class when I can and do it as well as I can in the meantime.

 

[ElectricZombie]

here's my point(granted i am speaking from NO experience)--i can't say who i'll be diving with from dive to dive. as of now i don't have a regular diving buddy. different people are trained in different ways. my padi training taught me that in an ooa situation i take my buds octo.

You need to go ahead and forget all about that method. There are no good reasons to do it that way.

however with a combo unit there is no traditional octo, so if my bud is ooa he/she will be looking for something that isn't there. why not have that traditional octo lashed(velcro, breakaway, etc..) on my hip in case the ooa diver coming at me is used to going for it by instinct.

Because it is not needed and would not be effective.

i know that people will say that i should have told my buddy before the dive that in an ooa he/she should take my primary, but in a panic people will revert to instinct. so if that instinct is to go for the octo, it's there.

Actually, the most likely reaction of a panicked diver is to grab the reg in YOUR mouth. With the long hose/donate the primary method, this is what you are trained to do anyway. No suprises and you know exactly where the reg to donate is...in your mouth. Your backup reg is under your chin, right were it should be. Ideally, you should practice incessantly with your buddy to make sure you both know what to do in an OOG situation.

also, all the arguments i've read against the octo/infl combo always say that the benefit of reducing the drag of an extra hose isn't worth it since an extra hose really dosen't cause a noticable difference. yet when i suggest having both(octo/infl and trad. octo) the same people say it's not a good idea because it creates unnecessary clutter. it seems the smartest set-up to me. the difference in size between a normal inflator and an octo/infl combo is very minor. and it dosen't create confusion in a crisis situation, quite the opposite, it creates options! convince me otherwise. ps---to snowbear---i know the dir answer, lose the octo/infl combo

Having an inflator/reg combo will create some drag, but that really isn't the main reason to avoid it. Inflator/reg combos create problems because they incorprate your bouyancy control device into a device in your mouth. This creates problems on ascent if you need to deflate because the device is in your mouth. The corrugated hoses on inflator/reg combos is either way to long or way to short. It will either bang around of stuff or barely reach your mouth, causing difficulty either way. What if your inflator hose goes? Now you have no backup reg. While the reg may be attached to the corrugated hose, it is still much easier to simply retreive a backup reg worn in a necklace. I have seen several people try to go for their inflator/reg combo underwater, only to end up grabbing their snorkel instead and getting a big gulp of water. They should not have been wearing a snorkel in the first place, but the inflator/reg just added to the problem.

Sure, attaching an inflator/reg combo to your BC will give you options. Unfortunately, they are all the wrong options. There is no confusion in an OOG situation if you and your buddy have practiced the proper technique. Your buddy signals OOG...you deploy the long hose, knowing that it works and he instantly has gas and room to move. You go to your backup reg that literally sits a few inches from your mouth. Problem solved. No need for pieces of odd gear, just practice. Simple works best and gross motor movements are the ones that stick around when something goes wrong. Searching around for integrated equiptment or dangling "octos" doesn't work. Stick with a 7' hose and a backup reg worn in a necklace under your chin.

 

[deep_6]

Hi there...I hope you guys don't mind if I ride on this thread. Just one question about DIR diving.

Does DIR diving require a dry suit or you can go DIR with a wetsuit?

Thank you.

 

[Snowbear]

Exposure protection suitable for the environmental conditions. Here, that's a drysuit. Someplace much warmer, a wetsuit is fine.

 

[JPBECK]

Some people on this post sometimes give DIR advice --- but later when asked, they proffess that they are not DIR, as if to say that DIR is bad..
Anyways this should be addressed in the DIR section---It has been addressed many times there and it would get better more clear answers...